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Brown Colour Surround Leaves

Paulo Soares

Paulo Soares

Member
Joined
6 Nov 2014
Messages
602
What could cause this? Possible related causes?

(Don´t bring me Co2 issue or flow cause it isn´t) Drop cheker always almost yellow and turned on 24 hours in both set up´s.

First set up

Nitrates - 40 ppm
PO4 - 3 ppm
Lights 78W 6500 k = 0.8W / liter
Photoperiod 8 hours

In another set up

Nitrates - 30 ppm
PO4 - 1 ppm
Lights 39W 6500 k = 0.5W / liter
Photoperiod 7 hours

In both set ups

KH = 10
GH = 18
PH = 6.8
NH3 - 0
NO2 = 0

Estimative Index without MG and CA. This comes from current water in pretty good values. 30 and 50 PPm acordingly.

Best regards

Example:

5lb4hl.jpg
 
Previous note:
This was debated on BARR Report but they never come up with a clear answer.
Hopefully we can pick in here some more ideas.
 
Hi Paulo,

this is Diatomic algae ! Is it a new set up ? less than 3 month or so ?
If it is the case than that simply means that your tank (bacteria substrate and filter) is not enough mature, the bacteria doesn't manage the whole amount of amonia etc ...
if your tank is mature (be advice that it can take more than 6 months sometimes for a tank to becomes mature), than that means or your filter is too dirty or your tank is too dirty and need a good clean (by following all the rules to not kill the bacteria).
If it is not the 2 points above, that means you have a CO2 problem (sorry --> 95% of problem in a planted tank). light is too strong or on too long, or plants have grown too much and restrict flow ...
I have been battling this algae for a year and came finally over it !! My problem was a maturing problem. once the tank is mature all the diatom are gone !! I have had the same problem with an other tank that I set up 4 month ago.
But sometimes it comes back, why --> filter is too dirty
--> Tank is not well cleaned
--> As soon as I back of on cleaning or changing water (If I am not on top of maintenance)
--> BUT MOST OF THE TIME WHEN IT COMES BACK FOR ME IT S DUE TO CO2 PROBLEM ( FLOW RESTRICTED, OR INJECTION IS NOT GOOD)

As soon as I do regular maintenance or fix the flow CO2 problem, 2 or 3 weeks of good Water change problem is gone. I do 80% WC per week usualy, but when I have a diatomic fight to do It is 70% twice a week.

I know you can be frustrated by CO2, but CO2 is a b*tch, I have been in the same situation as yours (I wasn't believing nothing about CO2 after doing all the thing to have good CO2), but trust me 95% of the time CO2 is not good.
I have success in aquascaping, since I always assume that my CO2 is not good enough. I always check for CO2 and flow AAAALLLLL the time.
A yellow drop check doesn't mean you have good or perfect CO2 (be aware of that).
Second, if you don't have test kit that cost thousand of dollars, never trust your test kit. Test kit are not good !!! check your plants they are the best test kit you have.

Check flow ( I think this can be the problem), check your filter, tank, substrate .... be on top of maintenance for 3 weeks and it will be gone. But do it now as it juste started.

Regards
Zanguli
 
zanguli-ya-zamba.. many thanks on your reply and i guess you hit on target!

By your apointments i now see that it was a filter issue and it was verified and put to maintenance last week.

For almost a year that i usually only change the sponge in the filter and also wash the inside filter body with water from the aqua.

Last week for the first time i wash the filter media with water from the aquarium.. that´s when i figure out that the filter media was fully clogged of garbage / organic material / detritcs.
I put the filter media in a basket full of water from the tank to wash it and that´s when i realize the ammount of garbage. As soon i insert the filter media in the water and shake it with my hands.. i could realize the enourmous amounts of organic material. The water turns really black black and the filter material returns to is natural yellow/orange. Big mistake of mine.

This garbage of course prevents the bacteria to form and spread.

I now downsize the lights for the plants recover slowly after triming. As regarding water changes i do it 3 times a week of 30% each.
Flow and Co2 are well.

Pelase accept my compliments and thanks for your reply.
 
Paulo Soares said:
Estimative Index without MG and CA
Click to expand...
I would suggest missing Mg, leading to poor CO2 uptake. All the people that think they have Mg in their water are being possibly being deluded by their test kits and/or misreading their water companies test report (note test report is values on day of test which can vary daily) end up with plant and eventually algae issues. Very few people, in the world have massive amounts of Mg in their domestic water, you may be lucky, but plants may indicate otherwise.

Why you have taken to roll you own incorrect version of EI I do not know, everyone who has ever done this has had plant issues.

Please dose Mg in form of MgSO4, it costs b**ger all (25Kg on Ebay for £15, if you really want it cheap).
 
Ian_m
The salts will be ordered by the end of this month from the "aquariumplantfood". The starter kit. Never try it before. I usually buy the salts here in Portugal but i´m suspicious about is quality or purity degree/level.

In your opinion do you consider it enough or should i had an extra salt? For instace KCL.

Many thanks for being here helping
 
Paulo Soares said:
In your opinion do you consider it enough or should i had an extra salt? For instace KCL.
Click to expand...
Nope. As I said, in almost 100% of cases where people "invent" their own dosing scheme (and call it EI), for what ever reason (usually a test kit result !!!) they end up with issues. EI was invented/evolved so a test kit is not required and the only technical equipment required is a set of spoons to measure out the salts.
 
Well in my case, I can get brown dust algae on my plants whenever I make a co2 fluctuations. Like a change in bubble rate. Also when light hits the tank from a window and co2 is off like in the early morning. Even indirect light causes this.
Sorry Paulo, I know when they say co2 is cause for everything it becomes a bit frustrating......
Well this is just my experience anyway.
 
Paulo I got exactly the same algae growth around the edges of the same plant when my CO2 was accidently left off for a couple of days after a water change.

Basically a CO2 issue.

Solved by turning CO2 on and removing the affected leaves.

Rest of the leaves on same plant were fine and all new leaves are growing fine as well.
 
Something here isn´t right..or not matching. And you know i´m looking for answers for quite a while and i´m not on this hobby since yesterday.
This tank (i have another one) is suffering from this issue for almost a year now. (this brown algae)

Some issues we can put outside of the table such as:

Flow:
I can´t have anymore flow. If i push more i´m going to pick up the plants outside the tank and see the substrate flowing. ;) very good flow in the bottom, in the middle and upwards for aeration.

Co2:
It´s on 24 hours. And i´m not being changing a damn thing on it
it´s always giving 5 or 6 Bps or more (can´t count). I don´t do any testing cause i know tests aren´t reliable. I guide myself by the drop with 4dkh calibrated solution and it´s almost yellow. If the drop is a xit guide than i don´t know where from to guide for.

Lights:
I have twice 39W with 6500 K. If i turn lights to 78W Gsa imediately apeears no matter if i increase PO4 (cause remember i have good flow so this issue is outside the equation remaining the PO4) .
And it apears in such proportions you can´t imagine.. even doing three times water change per week and cleaning the glass she stills come back in a couple a days.. amazing!

If i return to 39W the tank doesn´t have ANY algae and Gsa disapear. But plants still presenting this little brown baby.
By the way it´s a 100 hundred liter tank

No matter what i do this brown algae is always present. Since the beggining.

So.. what´s remaining? The Fert and the filter media. The filter media was solved last week. But i dont´believe this was the cause has i have this since the beginning.

So, i rest my case for the fert.
I´m going to introduce MG and CA and we´ll see what hapens.

Then i will have a last issue to solve.. the 78W and gsa. Cause the tank with only 39W develops in slow motion..

If none of this events solve the tank i´m going to disassembling it and start a knew one with new ferts, and also FERTILE substrate. Cause today i know any tank must have this and not only the grain.
This was a mistake from the beggining and maybe the cause. Again.. Fert / nutrients.
I follow an advice and this was an error. Fertil substrate has carbon that is being realesed as Co2 ans this carbon is also being renovated in the fertil substrate.

I´m reaching a saturation point with this tank. It´s bieng quite desperate and unglorious of a fight.
I´m going to give it this last shot. If it doesn´t work out, bye bye. To much money on it.. it´s better to star all over.
Many thanks.
 
Last edited:
In conclusion:
I´m going to follow your advice concerning the MG and CA as the filter media is allready solved.
Many thanks

P.S. with new SALTS of course..
 
Yes Mg and Ca are a must. Specially Mg.

Another thing. Maybe you should buy a cheap pH pen and calibrate it (its only about 7 punds on ebay and they work great IMO). Leave it hanging inside the water of the tank so that you can see pH at any time. You will notice that co2 levels change even with a small change in flow. Maybe you know this but its the best way Ive got to get co2 spot on. IMO its not only about ammount of co2, but also stability. It might be that this is not the cause of your problem but its still the single best piece of testing device that Ive ever bought for a planted tank.
 
What Pen you have?
Can you point a link? Money is no issue, so i will follow you Jose.
Good point indeed.
 
Hi Paulo
Just to let you know that adding Mg and Ca will not solve the diatomic problem ! They are not related. In Congo tap water is very very soft, the grace of Mg and Ca in water is so small that we can say it is almost zero, so I add Mg and Ca in my tank and it doesn't change a dame thing about this brown algae. With or without you can have it. Don't focus on it. But of course it s better for your plants to add it.

Second you don't need a fertilize substrate that cost a lot of money.
Here is a picture of my tank with plain sand and fertilizer in the sand (balls or whatever)
08dbd095d94c2119b7aa8f968e1fa7a3.jpg


I didn't change water for two weeks now and no trimming etc ... Yesterday I noticed that diatomic is coming back.
As soon as you back off on maintenance it is back.

Let you tank mature well be on top of maintenance etc ...


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Just realised I have exactly the same thing on the same plant as you Paulo. I am dosing full EI (with mg) and very hard water (19dGH).

So zanguli-ya-zamba, you think we just have to wait it out? :( (While keeping maintenance as good as possible)
 
Hi Paulo,
i use dry salts from aquariumplantfood and Portuguese suppliers, can see any difference...
If there is any 'pratical' difference maybe the fish/inverts would be the first to suffer...

My 'small' experience with hdrocotyle's: they doesn't like to much flow!
Also take some time to adapt, even in a established tank! (2 months or more, in my case, to start growing like crazy)
When replant, also suffers a bit (and stop growth for some time). But if i cut the runners or some leaves (and leave the rest intact) it doesn't affect the growth.
I don't know if this help's but i see it like the kind of plant to put in the right place and leave it alone!

Don't know also if it's true but some of my plants seem to grow better with slow/very slow flow... (don't take my experience as a rule, the opposite seems to work better is most cases).
cheers
:cigar:
 
It may make no sense but here it goes... Had exactly same issue for so long. Raised lights higher (cfls) added ottos & couple of days later... I added purigen. This thing is supposed to absorb quite a few (bad) things from the wc and gets your water spotless. After that tripartita is so green and spotless. But not sure if its the lights or the ottos or the purigen :bored:
 
Christos Ioannou said:
It may make no sense but here it goes... Had exactly same issue for so long. Raised lights higher (cfls) added ottos & couple of days later... I added purigen. This thing is supposed to absorb quite a few (bad) things from the wc and gets your water spotless. After that tripartita is so green and spotless. But not sure if its the lights or the ottos or the purigen :bored:
Click to expand...

Hi Change Christos

The thing you have done that did the biggest impact was raise the light. This move have certainly reduce a lot the diatomic growth. As you can see in my first post I advice Paulo to reduce light intensity. For most of the algae it helps. By reducing the light you also reduce CO2 demand so that helps the plant a lot !
Second move was to add ottos they are a god crew for this type of algae.
For the purigen I don't know I have never use it.

Regards guys


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