rotala blood red is blotchy?

[dIggO]

Hi all,

That definitely looks to be an iron (Fe) deficiency, small, pale (chlorotic), new leaves are <"pretty diagnostic">.

cheers Darrel

Thanks for your answer Darrel!
I just measured the concentration (Fe) and it's still 0.3 ppm.
In my provided fertilizer the iron is dosed separately and it's DTPA. My water is soft at 1-2 KH and 7 GH with a Ph of 7.1 dropping to 6.0 after a day of CO2.

Is just somewhat higher dosing a good start, say 25% or do you advise EDTA for my soft water? (As stated in your referred post "pretty diagnostic")

Greetz,

Richard

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

My water is soft at 1-2 KH and 7 GH with a Ph of 7.1

Interesting, you shouldn't have iron (Fe) issues at this point.

Manganese (Mn) deficiency would be an option, but it is really rare.

Cheers Darrel

 

[Happi]

Anyone if this is a shortage or something else?

• Tank 80x40x40 maybe 100 liters without substrate and hardscape
• Chihiros WRGB II on 60% for 8 hours, no ramp
• Oase 600T
• Substrate:
  • Gravel for hight
  • ADA Amazonia v2
• CO2 at 10-12 bubbles/sec (aprox. 1.0 -1.2 PH drop to 6.0) with reactor and a measured KH of 2.
• Planted Box EI kit for fertilizer. 30ml macro, 30ml micro and 30 ml iron per week.
  • N - 25ppm/week
  • PO4 - 2.5ppm/week
  • K - 20ppm/week
  • Fe - 0.5ppm/week
  • Mg - 2ppm/week
  • SO4 - 3ppm/week

View attachment 217753
For comparison two shots for overall view.
View attachment 217754

View attachment 217755

Thanks in advance!

Are you using csm+b ?

Anyway, these are classic symptoms of over fertilization and improper dosing.

 

[dIggO]

Are you using csm+b ?

No, I use the EI kit from "PlantedBox"

Anyway, these are classic symptoms of over fertilization and improper dosing.

Hmmm, I'm using the recommended dosing @ 30ml/100L a week for each fert (Macro, Micro and Fe) with a 50% water change weekly. What would you suggest?

 

[G H Nelson]

Hi @dIggO
Do a water change and don't dose fertilizers for 4 weeks.....and monitor the situation!
Rotala react pretty quickly to changes.

 

[dIggO]

Hi @dIggO
Do a water change and don't dose fertilizers for 4 weeks.....and monitor the situation!
Rotala react pretty quickly to changes.

Will try!

 

[Happi]

• N - 25ppm/week
• PO4 - 2.5ppm/week
• K - 20ppm/week
• Fe - 0.5ppm/week
• Mg - 2ppm/week
• SO4 - 3ppm/week

I believe you meant to write N- 25 as 25 ppm NO3. otherwise 25 ppm N would be 110 ppm NO3.

No, I use the EI kit from "PlantedBox"

judging by the picture, it appear to look like csm+b which I personally consider as a terrible product. ask the seller to verify if this is csm+b. I Would suggest getting a better trace Mix, let me know whatever you can find and we can go from there.

Hmmm, I'm using the recommended dosing @ 30ml/100L a week for each fert (Macro, Micro and Fe) with a 50% water change weekly. What would you suggest?

first of all I would like to know about your water parameters and water report if possible. your situation is far beyond Fe deficiency, in order to understand it, you truly have to look into all other areas.

 

[Cor]

This seems like a Nutrient Lockdown to me.
as a result of Rich-dose fertilization in combination with a rich soil such as ADA.
Stop this fertilization routine and switch to a lean-dose regime

 

[dIggO]

I believe you meant to write N- 25 as 25 ppm NO3. otherwise 25 ppm N would be 110 ppm NO3.

You are completely right. It's NO3. Sorry about the misinformation...

judging by the picture, it appear to look like csm+b which I personally consider as a terrible product. ask the seller to verify if this is csm+b.

I'll ask the seller. What would you recommend instead?

first of all I would like to know about your water parameters and water report if possible. your situation is far beyond Fe deficiency, in order to understand it, you truly have to look into all other areas.

Waterparameters are here. I hope this helps?

This seems like a Nutrient Lockdown to me.
as a result of Rich-dose fertilization in combination with a rich soil such as ADA.
Stop this fertilization routine and switch to a lean-dose regime

I did a 50% waterchange yesterday and stopped the ferts as @GHNelson advised. Should I still do Iron? Or just stop all for a few weeks?

I understand lots of people have different meanings, but then it's hard to know what route to follow...

Thanks for all your kind support!!!

Greetz Richard

 

[G H Nelson]

I did a 50% water change yesterday and stopped the ferts as @GHNelson advised. Should I still do Iron? Or just stop all for a few weeks?

@dIggO
Hi Richard
Yes, stop all fertilizing......Micro/Iron will probably be the real cause of leaf damage on the Rotala!

 

[Cor]

I did a 50% waterchange yesterday and stopped the ferts as @GHNelson advised. Should I still do Iron? Or just stop all for a few weeks?

I first recommend a major pruning, so that new leaves are adapted to the lean-dose aproach
Iron/ micro's are fine if you follow the recepy . Just don't overdose. Only dose potassium for a few weeks.

 

[G H Nelson]

Only dose potassium for a few weeks.

I wouldn't dose Potassium as you want to reduce all fertilizers in the water column.
A prune of the affected stems as @Cor stated will be beneficial to encourage new fresh growth.

 

[dIggO]

I wouldn't dose Potassium as you want to reduce all fertilizers in the water column.
A prune of the affected stems as @Cor stated will be beneficial to encourage new fresh growth.

But are Iron and/or Micro's ok?

 

[Happi]

I'll ask the seller. What would you recommend instead?

am not sure what is available in your country but here is a good start.

Waterparameters are here. I hope this helps?

the Average numbers:
Ca 40.7
Mg 5.7
Na 34.4
Ph 7.8 (looks like I made an error on this earlier, but now corrected)
DKH/DGH around 7.0 Average.

I would recommend raising the Mg just a little bit more, you can use MgSO4 and dose about 7 ppm Mg. if you have 100 liter tank, add 7.1 gram MgSO4 to it and at water changes if doing 50% water changes, add about 3.55 gram MgSO4 from that point on.

Dosing with KNO3 and KH2PO4 is fine, something like this:

500 ml solution, 5 ml per 100 Liter

32.61 grams KNO3
NO3 2
N 0.45
K 1.26

2.87 grams KH2PO4
PO4 0.2
P 0.065
K 0.082

try dosing this 1x a week and see how the plant respond, then you start dosing it 2-3x a week and observe from there. Once you figure out about the Micros, we can help you with that.

 

[John q]

I couldn't find the DKH listed in there unless I missed it, if someone else see it there please do post it.

It's under watersofcarbonaat 125mg/l dkh around 7.
Average ph is 7.8.

 

[dIggO]

am not sure what is available in your country but here is a good start.

the Average numbers:
Ca 40.7
Mg 5.7
Na 34.4
Ph 7.8 (looks like I made an error on this earlier, but now corrected)
DKH/DGH around 7.0 Average.

I would recommend raising the Mg just a little bit more, you can use MgSO4 and dose about 7 ppm Mg. if you have 100 liter tank, add 7.1 gram MgSO4 to it and at water changes if doing 50% water changes, add about 3.55 gram MgSO4 from that point on.

Dosing with KNO3 and KH2PO4 is fine, something like this:

500 ml solution, 5 ml per 100 Liter

32.61 grams KNO3
NO3 2
N 0.45
K 1.26

2.87 grams KH2PO4
PO4 0.2
P 0.065
K 0.082

try dosing this 1x a week and see how the plant respond, then you start dosing it 2-3x a week and observe from there. Once you figure out about the Micros, we can help you with that.

Using dry salts is a bit daunting for me. I'm just starting in this hobby (since oktober last year. I understand that the EI kit contains KNO3 and K3PO4 for Macro's and MgSO4 and trace elements for Micro's so that wouldn't be a problem, but KH2PO4 is. Don't got that.

And then 1 person tells me to stop with ferts, you say it's fine but in a somewhat different ratio... Ehh...

 

[G H Nelson]

But are Iron and/or Micro's ok?

Hi Richard
As I have said.....stop all dosing for 4 weeks as you have an abundance of Micro/Iron in the water column!
You can do multiple large water changes if you do not want to wait that long.
You can follow @Happi's recommendation....when you see new growth on the Rotala that is not affected by over fertilization.
hoggie

 

[Happi]

Using dry salts is a bit daunting for me.

but your kit contain dry salts. I just want to make sure that I understood this correctly, so you are saying that you find it difficult to use the dry salts? or difficult to make the solution from the dry salts?

I'm just starting in this hobby (since oktober last year. I understand that the EI kit contains KNO3 and K3PO4 for Macro's and MgSO4 and trace elements for Micro's so that wouldn't be a problem, but KH2PO4 is. Don't got that.

this hobby is fun but can come up with many challenges, am just trying to save you some headaches that maybe coming down the road and looks like you are already facing one right now. dry dosing using the spoons can be bit tricky and inaccurate, making the solution from those dry salts is much better and accurate. far as the K3PO4 goes, this is less likely to be used by the EI kit, the standard is usually KH2PO4. you can also verify this by contacting the seller unless its written on the package that you have.

And then 1 person tells me to stop with ferts, you say it's fine but in a somewhat different ratio... Ehh...

you are likely to hear different opinions and advice, you may have to try them in conjunctions. you can do multiple water changes as suggested by @GHNelson to reset the tank to desired level and then resume the dosing at suggested levels, but its better when you have both Micros and Macros on hand. but am quite certain that if you continue to dose the way you are currently dosing, you will continue to have problems.

 

[palcente]

Change one variable at the time and watch the plants. Try to fix your tripartita first; should be easier as it grows fast and you get "a clear reading" per day. Darrel gave you a hint. Something wrong with immobile nutrients, if you supplied them, then it is time to start the research to figure out why they are being ignored.

 

[dIggO]

Hi Richard
As I have said.....stop all dosing for 4 weeks as you have an abundance of Micro/Iron in the water column!
You can do multiple large water changes if you do not want to wait that long.
You can follow @Happi's recommendation....when you see new growth on the Rotala that is not affected by over fertilization.
hoggie

OK, that's clear! Thank you!

but your kit contain dry salts. I just want to make sure that I understood this correctly, so you are saying that you find it difficult to use the dry salts? or difficult to make the solution from the dry salts?

Happi, I'm very thankfull that you take the time to help me out like this!
It's not the dry salts themselves that is somewhat daunting, it's making the solution. I'll weigh the amount of salts in a scoop and post 'm here.

far as the K3PO4 goes, this is less likely to be used by the EI kit, the standard is usually KH2PO4. you can also verify this by contacting the seller unless its written on the package that you have.

The package says potassium phosphate, not Potassium dihydrogen phosphate. I don't know if it's common to simplify the first to the latter in the hobby?

you are likely to hear different opinions and advice, you may have to try them in conjunctions. you can do multiple water changes as suggested by @GHNelson to reset the tank to desired level and then resume the dosing at suggested levels, but its better when you have both Micros and Macros on hand. but am quite certain that if you continue to dose the way you are currently dosing, you will continue to have problems.

Saturday was my last Micro and Iron dosing. Sunday a 50% waterchange and no ferts since then.
I will be pruning Rotala today if possible.

Change one variable at the time and watch the plants. Try to fix your tripartita first; should be easier as it grows fast and you get "a clear reading" per day. Darrel gave you a hint. Something wrong with immobile nutrients, if you supplied them, then it is time to start the research to figure out why they are being ignored.

You are right about one thing at a time. Researching why they are ignored is why I'm asking for help. I didn't know where to start, because it's all new to me.

Tanks again peeps! MUCH appreciated!