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180L Jewel Rio - First time with plants

Sirkavu

Sirkavu

Member
Joined
15 Apr 2018
Messages
212
Location
London
Hi Everyone!!
Exciting times 😀 😀 😀 After two weeks reading and trying to learn (hehehe) about plants CO2.... Anyways I am finally starting my new tank 😀

I would like to do low-Tech for 2/3 weeks and then get CO2 - reason why is because there is not budget (need to replace my car windscreen 🙁 )

Soooo....I would like to have AS Amazonia and some rocks and driftwood. In terms of plants, just something easy and low light and CO2 like anubias etc.

To start in a good way, as I have to replace my 37L filter, I will cut half of it and put it it this new tank so I can start with some bacteria.

Is this a good start? If I need CO2 I will get liquid one.

I will start putting pictures this weekends once I put my hands to work and after your advices hehe
 
alto said:
What lights do you have?
Any plants you particularly like?
Livestock?"
Click to expand...
Light is the ones that came with the tank:
MultiLux LED 2x23watt
Power 1x23 W DAY & 1x23 W NATURE
Kelvin 9000/6500
Lumen 5290
Plants I was thinking about low CO2 and light fro Tropica website, something like:
Anubias
Cryptocoryn
Cladophora (maybe)
Bacopa (Maybe)
Echinodorus
Vallisneria

Still not very sure but will see tomorrow. Wont have mny different as I would like some nice dragon stones in there and some anubias around.

alto said:
Unless you already have the ADA Amazonia, I'd suggest Tropica as it tends to be more consistent quality & much more resistant to "mudding"
Click to expand...

Don't have it yet no, was about to go buy it tomorrow 🙂 Maybe will do that. Should I mix it with anything else?
 
Tank area 100cm x 40cm x 10cm substrate height ~ 40 litres substrate

But you want a slope rather than 10cm even height front to back, so may be OK with 3 bags Soil depending how much rock & wood etc, also if you want a sand/fine gravel foreground ...

ADA system uses the Power Sand to add bulk (& other properties) you can do this with any small piece porous rock (look for similar size to Power Sand, be careful of some of the horticultural products as some are determined floaters) or larger sized gravel (place this in mesh bags - or stockings)
The gravel won't have quite the same flow characteristics as Power Sand or irregular packed "lava" stone

You can also just use Aquarium Soil, often the larger particle soil is used for banking with the Powder Soil used as a top layer - of course if you rescape or adjust plants etc, this will tend to mix

I prefer uniform look so just use Powder but I also don't create banks deeper than ~15cm

The Green Machine has a warehouse clearance on (closing so certain tradeoff for the discount prices) so you may want to look at their online shop

Your plant list sounds fine, tank is 50cm tall so I suspect the PAR at substrate is medium at most (possibly low-med in some areas of the tank, depending on types of LEDs used & lens & reflector system)

I suggest you also add in something from Tropica's Supporting or Auxilary Plant list - these are fast growing stem plants that help with initial tank balance

I'd use liquid carbon as daily dose until you decide on CO2
- commiserations on the windscreen :sorry:

Follow Tropica's 90Day App 🙂
 
alto said:
ADA system uses the Power Sand to add bulk (& other properties) you can do this with any small piece porous rock (look for similar size to Power Sand, be careful of some of the horticultural products as some are determined floaters) or larger sized gravel (place this in mesh bags - or stockings)
The gravel won't have quite the same flow characteristics as Power Sand or irregular packed "lava" stone

You can also just use Aquarium Soil, often the larger particle soil is used for banking with the Powder Soil used as a top layer - of course if you rescape or adjust plants etc, this will tend to mix
Click to expand...

What about Aquatic compost (around 5cm?) + Tropica Powder soil (around 3cm?)? Or I can add ADA power Sand with the compost?

alto said:
I suggest you also add in something from Tropica's Supporting or Auxilary Plant list - these are fast growing stem plants that help with initial tank balance

I'd use liquid carbon as daily dose until you decide on CO2
- commiserations on the windscreen :sorry:

Follow Tropica's 90Day App 🙂
Click to expand...
WOW an app?? Already downloading heheh Which Liquid Carbon would you suggest?
And yeah...the windscreen....just ruined the morning haha almost cried. 🙁:sorry:
 
Link for Aquatic Compost???

Most "compost" would be comparable to Tropica Growth Substrate ie use 1-2cm deep, then layer with at least 4-5 cm fine gravel - look at Tropica Inspiration Layout videos for examples

Liquid Carbon - Seachem as I'm in Canada, there are others in the U.K. likely cheaper if not shipped overseas
 
If planning shrimp (especially the expensive sort) approach with caution 😉

Pond products are not formulated with aquaria in mind

Do search on here for
Aquatic Compost

I believe dw1305 has some commentary, or perhaps one of the moderator Tim's 🙂
 
Ok soooooo, I just got home and spent the last 5h setting up my tank 😀

So here is a description of my 180L Juwel Rio
IMG_4360.jpg
Substract
Tropica Aquarium Soil from 3cm to 5/6cm backawrds

Plants
x1 Anubias
x2 Crypts
x1 Ludwigia
x2 Vallisneria
x1 Bacopa
IMG_4362.jpg
I have added Aquasafe for the 180L, which is 5ml per 10L. As I do not have CO2 system, I bought Seachem and added one capful which is enough for 250L. I also bought both tropica premium fertilisers but didn't add yet - should I?

Please see picture of how the tank looks at the moment 😀
IMG_4364.jpg
So, on the left side I would like to add some stones to fill the space between the plants and maybe add some staurogyne.

Also ill make a path to the "cave" rocks and on each sides will put 2-4 cladophoras. Maybe some more Echinodorus on the right side to give more volume and on the right middle I want put some Echinodorus Rose to add some more colour.

Unfortunately, my girlfriend took the some plants out of the pot they came with and some leafs got a bit dry - hopefully this wont be a problem.

It is not finished yet and I think now I have a better idea of what other plants I want to add to make it nicer 🙂

Please let me know if there is something I should have done different, or if I should do something else. I have downloaded the Tropica app and it says to add shrimps on the third day after a 50% water change - should I?

Thank you all 🙂 🙂
 
Second day

I have been trying to write since afternoon but couldnt due to a big leak in my kitchen. Ok.. so second day and the bubbles in my tank disappeared - few around the filter only.

The water in the morning was not hot and for sure not 26 or above. I checked the heater and this was not hot. After turning it off from the plug for a few minutes, I put it on and after a few hours it got hot, do you think I might have a problem here? On the thermometer I put it at 32 but the water is not 32, not even close. It's 200W Heater.

I have added Seachem and tank had only 6h of light today and around 4 yesterday.
Most of my plants are "dirty" due to the soil - as tomorrow I am preforming 50% water change, can I clean them with a soft brush?
Ludwigia - most of the leaves were down - just the leaves. It is a bit better now but, is it normal?
Anubias - one of the leaves has very small bubbles coming out, like it is expelling oxygen haha
Vallisneria - Some parts are getting transparent like, this a problem?
b (not crypt) - one of the pots has some dry leaves, because my girlfriend took it from the pot and left out for about 2h. They are getting yellow/bright brown, what should I do?

I think next weekend I will get some flowers for the right empty side, still not sure of which ones. If you have any suggestions, please let me know 🙂

Hey @Guest , sorry to bug you 😳 can I ask what do you think?
 
Ok so, after a few days thinking and heavy work at my Restaurant/bar, I went and go some more plants.

My first plants are suffering a lot because I was very dumb and got Seachem Flourish instead of Excell, which means I was not dosing LC - yeah very dumb. Yesterday I got my LC, did 50% water change and add some more plants and then put the right amount of Aquasafe and LC. (Was up until 3am as Monte Carlo is not easy to plant :lol::lol:

It has been 9 days now and I hope my first plants survive and get as healthy as they can be 🙂

My plan now is to keep Lights on only 4h, at least 2/3 days (let me know if this is ok or now, considering my plants), then up to 6h. I am also considering putting Shrimps next weekend, if you guys advice so of corse, if not then I will change the plans hehehe

Please see picture of my tank.
IMG_4469.jpg
IMG_4470.jpg
IMG_4471.jpg
 
Sirkavu said:
I am also considering putting Shrimps next weekend, if you guys advice so of corse,
Click to expand...
It can take up to 8-12 weeks (or more) for a tank/filter to cycle so water is safe for animals, due to presence of toxic ammonia and nitrite. Can be speeded up with either some dirty water/filter material from a mature tank (as you have done) or lots of plants. You may get away by either frequent (daily ?) massive water changes and/or daily dosing ammonia removers like Prime or AmQuel+, to shorten the time

Spend that that time buying plants, rearranging plants etc.

Liquid carbon is not the same as carbon from gaseous CO2, it is many many times less concentrated, in the amounts added to the tank. Also liquid carbon can cause many types of plant to melt & die. Can't help you with plants that don't like liquid CO2, you will just have to try it and see. If you see plants turning brown and melting away, then that plant doesn't like liquid carbon. Sometimes, when dosing liquid carbon the mature leaves melt away to slush, but the new shoots appear resistant and eventually the plant regrows and recovers.

You will find dosing liquid carbon for a large tank quite expensive, gas CO2 works out about 1/5 (or more) the cost in the long run.

As the lights supplied by Juwel are very bright and you are adding liquid carbon, this makes this a "high tech" tank, with associated maintenance routine, dosing of fertilisers and water flow rate requirements.

So you should either bite the "high tech bullet"
  • You will be able to grow so called "difficult" plants eg most carpeting plants.
  • Add daily CO2 source (liquid or gas).
  • Add another filter (external ?) to get flow rate at least 1800litre/hour (x10 volume rule). 99.99% if high tech tank issues are CO2 level issues and distribution. It is hard to do. I have 5300litre/hour flow rate in the 180litre tank and still have CO2 distribution and flow issues.
  • You will be allowed (once sorted) to run lights at 100% for many hours...
  • High doses of fertiliser are now required to keep up with the plants prestigious growth rates. Pre-mix ferts can work out extortionately expensive (they are mostly water), investigate making your own from dry salts.
  • Weekly 50% water changes will be required to remove all the plant organic waste and left over fertiliser.
  • Weekly plant trimming and control will be needed.
  • Algae is only a day or two away from taking over if you make a mistake, miss water change etc.
or go low tech (or something between high tech and low tech).
  • Plants will grow slowly, may limit your choice of plants.
  • Liquid CO2 in small amounts will be fine, or just rely on rotting fish food and fish poo.
  • Don't need another filter.
  • Lights must be kept low, maybe 50% or lower.
  • Fertiliser dosing, maybe once a week will be fine. Pre-mixed will be Ok.
  • Water changes, when ever you find convenient, monthly ? Weekly 10-20% ?
  • Plants grow slowly, will need trimming/controlling less often.
  • Algae will appear slowly, allowing time (days/weeks) for you to fix the cause and remove it.
 
ian_m said:
It can take up to 8-12 weeks (or more) for a tank/filter to cycle so water is safe for animals, due to presence of toxic ammonia and nitrite. Can be speeded up with either some dirty water/filter material from a mature tank (as you have done) or lots of plants. You may get away by either frequent (daily ?) massive water changes and/or daily dosing ammonia removers like Prime or AmQuel+, to shorten the time

Spend that that time buying plants, rearranging plants etc.
Click to expand...
Yeah I’ll do. Can I add the water I take from my cycles 34l tank, whenever I WC it? To help speed up the cycling.
Also, how can I be sure the tank is cycled? I read somewhere I shouldn’t trust test kits much
ian_m said:
You will find dosing liquid carbon for a large tank quite expensive, gas CO2 works out about 1/5 (or more) the cost in the long run.
Click to expand...
Very true! I can’t have low tech with gas CO2 right? Hehe
ian_m said:
As the lights supplied by Juwel are very bright and you are adding liquid carbon, this makes this a "high tech" tank, with associated maintenance routine, dosing of fertilisers and water flow rate requirements.
Click to expand...
Is there anything that can help me get the brightness down? If not I think I’ll speak with a friend that is electrician and make it dimmeble
ian_m said:
So you should either bite the "high tech bullet"
...
or go low tech (or something between high tech and low tech).
Click to expand...
I would like to go low-tech, mostly because this and next month I won’t be able to afford buying the CO2 . I’ve been asking myself, should I put fertilisers now, or not yet?

Also...do I had an idea and would like to add some wood or stone and add plants on it...what plants would you suggest
Thanks a lot
 
Sirkavu said:
Is there anything that can help me get the brightness down? If not I think I’ll speak with a friend that is electrician and make it dimmable
Click to expand...
Use the LED controller.
https://www.juwel-aquarium.de/en/Products/Lighting/LED/HeliaLux-LED/HeliaLux-Day-Night-Control/

Mind you not as bright as T5 tube of same length. 895mm MultiLux -> 2645 lumen and 895mm T5 tube 2800lumen. At least Juwel replacement LED's are near the T5 equivalents in Lumen output.

You could always wrap foil rings around the light to redcuce the brightness. That is quite a common T5 tube method or reducing brightness. You will be looking at reducing the light output by 1/3-1/2. My mate has a tank with a single T5 tube, with foil rings blocking 1/3 the tube and tank has no algae, fertiliser once a week if he remembers, water changes maybe 20-50% once a month or when he remembers, all nice of low light, low maintenance, he is happy.

Sirkavu said:
Also, how can I be sure the tank is cycled? I read somewhere I shouldn’t trust test kits much
Click to expand...
Correct hobby grade test kits are notorious for giving false results, leading you down the path to major tank issues.

Read this on test kits.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/what-about-test-kits.52487/

Best way is just wait 8 weeks or more, should be done by then. Using dirty water and dirty filter media will help. When I got my new JBL e1501 filter I just put some dirty Juwel filter sponges in it, within a week or two everything in the e1501 was covered in gorgeous bacterial gunk.

You could possibly use an ammonia test kit (or nitrite) as long as you ensure no dechlorinator is present, say 48 hours ?, as this is known to interfere with these test kits. Once ammonia and nitrite is 0 to low, you are good to go.

If worried, just daily dose, small amounts, of Prime or AmQuel+ as these will remove ammonia.

Patience will pay off in the end.
 
Like @ian_m mentioned, using the gunk or a bit of media from another filter is the best way to jump start the cycle.

I do use test kits when cycling a tank. I usually test every other day and take note of the values I get to see the cycle happening, not to get specific numbers. In my opinion, you should also add a little bit of fish food, or a little bit of pure ammonia to give the bacteria something to eat while you don't have fish to produce waste.
 
ian_m said:
Mind you not as bright as T5 tube of same length. 895mm MultiLux -> 2645 lumen and 895mm T5 tube 2800lumen. At least Juwel replacement LED's are near the T5 equivalents in Lumen output.

You could always wrap foil rings around the light to redcuce the brightness.
Click to expand...

Ok so my tank has two LED x23w (1 nature LED and another day LED), which brings to a 5290 lumen - 2490 more than a 895mm T5 tube. If I cover 1/3 of my tube with foil, would that be enough? The HeliaLux is just toooooo expensive at the moment unfortunately :/


ian_m said:
Best way is just wait 8 weeks or more, should be done by then. Using dirty water and dirty filter media will help. When I got my new JBL e1501 filter I just put some dirty Juwel filter sponges in it, within a week or two everything in the e1501 was covered in gorgeous bacterial gunk.
Click to expand...
I have put half of my dirty filter from another tank and whenever I do WC I bring that dirty water to this Juwel tank. Now I will play the game of waiting.

ian_m said:
You could possibly use an ammonia test kit (or nitrite) as long as you ensure no dechlorinator is present, say 48 hours ?, as this is known to interfere with these test kits. Once ammonia and nitrite is 0 to low, you are good to go.
Click to expand...
Ammonia is 0, nitrite and nitrate are 40 and 1 haha

@kadoxu Been adding fish food as well now 😀 thanks
 
@ian_m Ok sooooo... I have a few questions. I read about EI dose yet, things I am not my area of expertise - it takes loooong time to understand hehehe

My tank is 180l, as you know. So am I right to say I should add the following nutrients?
Nitrate (NO3) - 46ppm
Potassium (K) - 69ppm
Phospate (PO4) - 6.9ppm
Magnesium (Mg) - 23ppm
Iron (Fe) - 1.5ppm

It was a bit difficult to understand a few thinks :crazy:😳:lol:
How to I know what is the uptake rate of my tank? How should I measure it?
Should I go for dry salts? At the moment I have at home Seachem Flourish and Tropica Premium Nutrition & Plant growth - don't use them all thought, I only use Seachem Flourish.

What do you suggest? Really want to make sure I give the right nutrients to my plants with the best method, having in mind I will try and keep Low Tech :headphone:
 
Get the EI starter kit from aquariumplantfood.co.uk, mix up dry salts in bottles and dose as per the instructions. 40ml alternate days for your tank if high tech.This is dosing in excess so plants will have all the nutrients they require, thus plant issues cant be related to lack of nutrient issues and no need to test as you know nutrients are sufficient for your plants.

As you are low tech, not bright lights and no carbon source you could dose 1/4 or less doses, maybe even weekly. My mate doses 1/4 or less EI solution weekly in his low tech tank.

Any unused nutrients will of course be removed/reduced at next water change.
 
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