190ltr growth problems!!

Discussion in 'Lighting' started by adli100, 29 Sep 2009.

  1. adli100

    adli100 Newly Registered

    Messages:
    13
    can anyone help me i have a 190 ltr bow corner tank and have
    1 x 600mm 55w t5 interpet triplus
    1 x 18watt 600mm Arcadia classica natural daylight
    1 x 18watt 600mm Arcadia classica tropical sunlight
    i know this to some people might seem a stupid question but is this enough light???
    i am not using any co2
    had the tank at 78 c turned it up to 82 c
    i have a Tetra Plant Complete Substrate under my gravel and was using leaf zone fert but have stopped!
    the main problem im having is algae growth on a big scale and no plant growth!
    is it my lights??????
     
  2. Superman

    Superman Member

    Messages:
    1,804
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    So you're not dosing ferts and/or co2 with that amount of light? and for how long?
    Think you might have too much light and/or not enough ferts and co2.
     
  3. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Memo to Self: Remember to add a sticky advising the populace that CO2 is what makes plants grow and that more light requires more CO2...
    I think you mean 82 F right? Was there a reason you did this? Algae love the warmth.
    BINGO! :wave:

    Cheers,
     
  4. adli100

    adli100 Newly Registered

    Messages:
    13
    i understand that plants need co2 but am sure i seen plants in tanks where there was no co2 but my plants just dont sem to be graowing at all!!
    i put the 2 18watts tubes in as was told i had not enough lights!!
    i've turned the temp up as i was advised that the plants i have need a minimum of 80 degrees!!
    and i was advised to stop the fert dosage as that may have been the cause of the algae bloom!!!!
    arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    help my heads spinning!!!!
    .
    .
    .
    now i added the two new tubes should i start dosing agin??
    i'm determined to get these plants growing if it kills me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    keep the info coming its all very helpful!!
     
  5. Superman

    Superman Member

    Messages:
    1,804
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Please don't think that light is the only thing that can affect your plants. You need a balance between co2, ferts and light. Your light is too much IMO not to be adding co2.

    Imagine how you'd feel if no one fed you oxygen and food?! You wouldn't grow and start a deficiency and get ill. That'll feed algae, increasing the light only compounded the algae growth.

    Your to do list:
    Cut the lights down to 6 hours, get rid of the algae manually by cleaning.
    Add co2 and ferts again.
    Turn the temp down.

    Who ever you've been taking advice from them on planted tank matters, ignore them from now on.

    FERTS TO NOT CAUSE ALGAE!
     
  6. adli100

    adli100 Newly Registered

    Messages:
    13
    fantastic response! and so quickly!!!
    i cant afford a co2 unit so am i best to switch the two tubes off and stop the ferts!!
    also i have a few amazon swords that i thpought needed temps of 80 -82
    i'm really appriecative of the info and am asking questions not challenging your plant knowledge!!!!! honest!!!
     
  7. Superman

    Superman Member

    Messages:
    1,804
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Nearly, don't be afraid to dose ferts. Many dose way more than the plants need and it's been proven that excess ferts do not trigger algae. When we dose more than what the plants need, we do is so the plants never get to a point that they've used all the ferts and are left starving. FERTS DON'T CAUSE ALGAE, unhealthy plants do.

    I understand that pressurised co2 kits are expensive, there are DIY yeast based ones which are cheaper but you'll have to get two in a one week staggered rotation to try and get a stable co2 amount. You might be better off dosing liquid carbon such as EasyCarbo (you can get that from our sponsors).
     
  8. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    No...you didn't. This was self hypnosis. You saw a tank that had ambient CO2 levels like yours but was not bombarded with as much light as yours. You need to understand the relationship between light and CO2. It's fundamental and it goes something like this:

    1. Light is converted by the plant into electricity. More light means more electricity.
    2. This electricity is then used to run a conveyor belt and to power a reaction that turns CO2+nutrients into a sugar. More electricity speeds up the conveyor belt and grabs more CO2+nutrients from the environment to power more reactions and thus produces more sugar.
    3. The sugar is used to feed the plant and to make it grow. More reactions means more sugar. More sugar means more growth.

    Now, put on your thinking cap and work your way backwards. What issue do you have? No growth, right? =>Please see step number 3. It means no sugar production, right?

    How could that happen? => Please see step number 2. You have lots of power, a fast conveyor belt and no ingredients to make sugar. What do you think happens to your powerplant? Was your answer "complete meltdown"? If so then you're on the path to wisdom.

    So how can this be fixed?
    How about slowing down the conveyor belt to a speed that can accommodate the available level of CO2+nutrients? You need to either lower the light intensity or to add more CO2.

    In the non-enriched tank that you observed, the amount of light being thrown at that tank would have been low enough to avoid overspeeding the conveyor belt. The CO2 was being pulled from the atmosphere. As the plant absorbs CO2 from the water more dissolves into it from above. At low ambient levels of CO2 the plant becomes more efficient at collecting CO2, but this is disrupted if you are constantly firing Klingon Photon Torpedoes at them. The deeper the tank the more difficult it is to get dissolved CO2 all the way down to the recesses.

    Look for ways to stop torturing your plants. Do you have reflectors? Get rid of them for now. Shut down the two 18 watt tubes. Keep your photoperiod less than 8 hours for now. Lower the temperature. This lowers the metabolism of everything in the tank - plants AND algae, and it gives you room to breathe. If you decided against adding liquid carbon then avoid water changes. This helps the plant to perform the adaptation to low CO2 and to become more efficient. If you decide to add liquid carbon then ensure that you add it every day.

    Were you dosing NPK as well as trace elements? If you decided against liquid carbon you don't really need a whole lot but you do need to add some.

    What type of algae do you have? You need to identify the algal species because it will tell you what it is that you are missing. Please carefully review JamesC's Algae Guide compare the images and report back as to what species are in your tank (in fact the guide tells you what the causal factors are.)

    Cheers,
     
  9. adli100

    adli100 Newly Registered

    Messages:
    13
    OKAY SO TODAY IM GOING TO PUT INTO PRACTICE THE INFO I BEEN GIVEN
    first im going to drop the photo hours down to eight a day.i've already dropped the temp down from 81 to 78
    i'll start dosing again and will look at making a co2 yeast device>...(any tips??)
     
  10. CeeJay

    CeeJay Member

    Messages:
    945
    Location:
    Surrey UK
    Hi adli100

    If you're battling with algae, I would be inclined to cut the hours down to 6, until you get it sorted ;)

    Chris
     
  11. Themuleous

    Themuleous Member

    Messages:
    4,126
    Location:
    Aston, Oxfordshire
    Yeast co2 on a 190lt is going to be next to useless. You'd probably need four or five yeast kits to get enough co2 into the tank.

    Have you seen this thread? Pressurised Co2 doesn't have to cost a fortune :)

    viewtopic.php?f=37&t=7696

    Sam
     
  12. adli100

    adli100 Newly Registered

    Messages:
    13
    think i might build one of the co2 units looks the business!!
    anyone know how long a bottle of co2 would last in my 190ltr tank??
     
  13. Themuleous

    Themuleous Member

    Messages:
    4,126
    Location:
    Aston, Oxfordshire
    Month, maybe less. The other option would be this but it is a bit more expensive, though you'd save the money back in no time.

    viewtopic.php?f=34&t=266

    Sam
     
  14. adli100

    adli100 Newly Registered

    Messages:
    13
    the fire extinguisher looks a good option!
    costs a little more but cheaper in the long run!
    can someone confirm to me the ideal temp for amazon swords? as i got told today by someone different that they like temps of 80-82! (the same as the amazon river?????)
    the algae i got is the type that appears as hairs on the tips of the plant leaves, it appears on most of the plants and i'm hoping the reduced lighting hours will help it stay put!
    i have been removing the heavily coated leaves off the plants that are growing but the other plants aren't doing anything yet! the amazon swords dont get the algae on them but they still going brown!!
     
  15. Themuleous

    Themuleous Member

    Messages:
    4,126
    Location:
    Aston, Oxfordshire
    ;)
     

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