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Darwin88
Guest
Interesting, I had 6 Otto's in the tank by that point. That type of Algae lasted about 4 weeks before slowly fading out. That wasn't too bad to be honest, it gave the driftwood character and it scraped off the glass easy enough. It was the hair / Filamentous Algae (I can't tell the difference) that caused the worst problems. Are Otto's know to eat it?
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Darwin88
Guest
Thanks, I'll try introducing some in thee future. Two questions for you:
When I've read about SAE's, I've come across two types - true and false I think - which ones are the best algae consumers because the articles I've read seem to contradict? And how big do they get?
The next question may sound daft, excuse my ignorance. I've never kept shrimp before, but I've got a Fluval Edge cycling at the moment which is intended as a shrimp tank. I look at shrimp and see legs, and would assume they dwell on the substrate. How do they graze on algae higher up the tank? Do they 'swim' ? Again, excuse the ignorance...
When I've read about SAE's, I've come across two types - true and false I think - which ones are the best algae consumers because the articles I've read seem to contradict? And how big do they get?
The next question may sound daft, excuse my ignorance. I've never kept shrimp before, but I've got a Fluval Edge cycling at the moment which is intended as a shrimp tank. I look at shrimp and see legs, and would assume they dwell on the substrate. How do they graze on algae higher up the tank? Do they 'swim' ? Again, excuse the ignorance...
LancsRick
Member
- Joined
- 18 Apr 2012
- Messages
- 683
SAE's are SAE's, but they are commonly known as true flying foxes. That's probably what you're thinking of. I don't really know much about them as I've never had them, but I know a lot of people on here have so you'll get an informed answer sooner or later 
.
Yep, shrimp can indeed swim.
.Yep, shrimp can indeed swim
.
SAE's are great for generally eating algae, one of the few that will touch BBA. Trouble is they are mis-sold a lot. Be sure to research them for identifying first so that you do get what you pay for.
Be aware though that they will get BIG and quite quickly. More often than not you will see big SAE's in LFS shops display tanks as customers return them because they stop eating algae as they age and also get boisterous.
Really Amano shrimp and Ramshorn snails are a better recommendation unless you are will to commit to SAE's growth needs.
Be aware though that they will get BIG and quite quickly. More often than not you will see big SAE's in LFS shops display tanks as customers return them because they stop eating algae as they age and also get boisterous.
Really Amano shrimp and Ramshorn snails are a better recommendation unless you are will to commit to SAE's growth needs.
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Darwin88
Guest
Ah yes that sounds like what I mean...
Thanks for that
And shrimp can swim? I feel enlightened. Thank you
Thanks for that
And shrimp can swim? I feel enlightened. Thank you
D
Darwin88
Guest
Thanks, I've just done a quick scout on Google. Maximum length 16cm? Is that a stocky clown loach type build at 16cm long or do they remain quite thin?
I've never kept larger fish, I've always preferred large shoals of small fish. I might stray towards the Amano shrimp instead
Hi,
crossocheilus siamensis is the true variety and the best algae grazer, it grows to 6". I have one as its said to be one of few fish which will graze on the beginnings of bba (black brush/beard algae) thus preventing its appearance....I like their character to be honest, they are busy and curious.
Most algae issues can be rectified with more/stable co2, less light, and more maintenance....although I quite like the green coating on your river pebbles, it looks natural, the hair/thread algae is less appealing so manual removal with a toothbrush and the measures listed should rid you of it. You can also dose liquid carbon to the effected areas, but vallisinera species react badly to this so it may not be the best course of action if you still have any remaining. A picture would be good for proper identification, cause and cure.
Re the vallisinera, I have soft water and am growing it...albeit slowly....it thrives in hard water as it has the ability to utilise the carbonates in kh to produce its own carbon source.....or something like that (Clive or Ceg4048 has posted the science behind this which can be found within the site) but it can be grown in soft water just co2 must be provided sufficiently as for all plants.
Loving your journal, its a crackin read!
Cheerio,
Ady.
crossocheilus siamensis is the true variety and the best algae grazer, it grows to 6". I have one as its said to be one of few fish which will graze on the beginnings of bba (black brush/beard algae) thus preventing its appearance....I like their character to be honest, they are busy and curious.
Most algae issues can be rectified with more/stable co2, less light, and more maintenance....although I quite like the green coating on your river pebbles, it looks natural, the hair/thread algae is less appealing so manual removal with a toothbrush and the measures listed should rid you of it. You can also dose liquid carbon to the effected areas, but vallisinera species react badly to this so it may not be the best course of action if you still have any remaining. A picture would be good for proper identification, cause and cure.
Re the vallisinera, I have soft water and am growing it...albeit slowly....it thrives in hard water as it has the ability to utilise the carbonates in kh to produce its own carbon source.....or something like that (Clive or Ceg4048 has posted the science behind this which can be found within the site) but it can be grown in soft water just co2 must be provided sufficiently as for all plants.
Loving your journal, its a crackin read!
Cheerio,
Ady.
D
Darwin88
Guest
Thanks, that's really informative.
I might have another go with Vallis then, I really like it but I removed all of mine at least 2 months ago. I realise now that the lack of Co2 has been the major failing in this tank. I'm sure when I upgrade to a pressurised set I'll have more success all round. I'll go into the liquid carbon I was using later in the journal and the effects it had, but that's as close to carbon dosing I came.
And as for hair algae, the toothbrush was probably the most effective method I tried. My main problem was its relentless desire to come back again! Again, I suspect my lack of carbon and respective fert dosing was the ultimate failing in this set up.
I might have another go with Vallis then, I really like it but I removed all of mine at least 2 months ago. I realise now that the lack of Co2 has been the major failing in this tank. I'm sure when I upgrade to a pressurised set I'll have more success all round. I'll go into the liquid carbon I was using later in the journal and the effects it had, but that's as close to carbon dosing I came.
And as for hair algae, the toothbrush was probably the most effective method I tried. My main problem was its relentless desire to come back again! Again, I suspect my lack of carbon and respective fert dosing was the ultimate failing in this set up.
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Darwin88
Guest
martinmjr62
Member
Stick with it. Get the CO2 sorted and it will all be worth it
Cheers
Martin
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Cheers
Martin
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You may find reducing you light intensity and/or duration will resolve some of your problems, of course along with the above. Less light means less nutrient demand= healthier plants so less algae
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Darwin88
Guest
You may find reducing you light intensity and/or duration will resolve some of your problems, of course along with the above. Less light means less nutrient demand= healthier plants so less algae
Thanks, yeah I know, however, you'd be shocked at how long it took me to work that out. I couldn't shake the misconception that light was good for my plants so I maintained a 10 hour photoperiod for ages. I dropped down to 6 hours towards the end which helped a bit.
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Darwin88
Guest
Chapter 4 - Clown Sick
I'm not sure of the exact time frames involved here, but I guess the tank had been running for 6-8 weeks by this point. Stocking was to take a huge leap, due to my inability to say 'No' to my Father...
Remember the job up North I was talking about? Well, after I'd been up there for about 2 months it became clear that I couldn't look after an aquarium in Yorkshire while I was living in Aberdeenshire. With absolute gratitude to my long suffering girlfriend, it was established that water changes and filter maintenance just weren't her thing. Living in rented accommodation up North I wasn't prepared to drag the tank up there until I'd found something more permanent so the decision was made to break it down.
Around the same time my dad was looking forward to a big birthday, and was struggling with boredom after recent retirement. I saw this as an excellent opportunity to re-home my current fish
Anyway, £350 and a post-birthday hangover later, my parents had a Juwel Rio 180 installed in their living room. It was a win win situation, I gained brownie points with the old's and avoided the shame of walking back into the LFS with a bag full of fish declaring that I could no longer look after them.
Jump back to the future, my 220 litre is ticking away nicely. Apart from the green slime slowly suffocating my tank things were going ok. Until, that is, my dad turned up with a bucket full of fish and announced "I'm breaking the tank down. Algae. Here's your fish back"
I passed on 6 Black Phantom Tetras, 12 Neon Tetras and a Red Tailed Shark to my dad. These came back to me, with the addition of 4 Cory's, 4 Mollies, an Opaline Gourmi, a Brown Plec and 9 male Guppies which looked like something a clown might throw up if he ate a bag of bunting (I mean no offence to fans of Guppies and other fancy fish, but they're not for my own taste. Sorry). Unfortunately in my absence up North I never had a chance to influence my dads decisions with his new aquarium. He meant well, but he just didn't understand my rantings of 'Bioload' and 'New tank sydrome'. Out of love, I took the whole lot into my new tank. Guppies included
I tried my best. I did 40% water changes everyday for the first 7 days to keep the shock down. Then, approximately 10 days after the introduction of all these fish, I had my first taste of hair algae.
I assume this is hair Algae. Whatever it was, it was everywhere. Take particular note of the snail. It was growing on his shell.
This stuff dominated my maintenance routine for the rest of the tanks life. It covered the glass, which wasn't difficult to remove, but given the depth of my tank it was a really time consuming job keeping it clean. It covered the driftwood too, which it seemed to grip onto because the only way to remove it was a vigorous scrubbing with a toothbrush. What are people's opinions of what the exact causes may have been? I assume this was triggered by the sudden increase in bioload - or is this just typical of a medium-high light tank without Co2/Ferts?
The other observations I'd make about the tank at this point were the plants growth rates. I was very surprised at the lack of growth. I expected as much from the Java Ferns and Anubias, which were beginning to show signs of BBA by now, but not the other plants. The Vallis and Indian Fern were not growing at all. In fact, their condition was deteriorating. The Vallis was fading to a pale green/yellow colour and the Indian Fern was losing is lower leaves. I'm afraid I never took any photo's of the plants in this state, so I can't give you any more than that.
It seemed my new tank was perfectly suitable for growing algae, but not plants. Hmm. I STILL hadn't found out about Co2, apart from a few mentions on the internet, nor had I bothered to read about ferts. Shamefully I didn't dose ferts even though I had some Profito from my last set up. Algae must be thriving on the ferts provided by the fish, I thought, why throw more in?!
I'm not sure of the exact time frames involved here, but I guess the tank had been running for 6-8 weeks by this point. Stocking was to take a huge leap, due to my inability to say 'No' to my Father...
Remember the job up North I was talking about? Well, after I'd been up there for about 2 months it became clear that I couldn't look after an aquarium in Yorkshire while I was living in Aberdeenshire. With absolute gratitude to my long suffering girlfriend, it was established that water changes and filter maintenance just weren't her thing. Living in rented accommodation up North I wasn't prepared to drag the tank up there until I'd found something more permanent so the decision was made to break it down.
Around the same time my dad was looking forward to a big birthday, and was struggling with boredom after recent retirement. I saw this as an excellent opportunity to re-home my current fish
Anyway, £350 and a post-birthday hangover later, my parents had a Juwel Rio 180 installed in their living room. It was a win win situation, I gained brownie points with the old's and avoided the shame of walking back into the LFS with a bag full of fish declaring that I could no longer look after them.
Jump back to the future, my 220 litre is ticking away nicely. Apart from the green slime slowly suffocating my tank things were going ok. Until, that is, my dad turned up with a bucket full of fish and announced "I'm breaking the tank down. Algae. Here's your fish back"
I passed on 6 Black Phantom Tetras, 12 Neon Tetras and a Red Tailed Shark to my dad. These came back to me, with the addition of 4 Cory's, 4 Mollies, an Opaline Gourmi, a Brown Plec and 9 male Guppies which looked like something a clown might throw up if he ate a bag of bunting (I mean no offence to fans of Guppies and other fancy fish, but they're not for my own taste. Sorry). Unfortunately in my absence up North I never had a chance to influence my dads decisions with his new aquarium. He meant well, but he just didn't understand my rantings of 'Bioload' and 'New tank sydrome'. Out of love, I took the whole lot into my new tank. Guppies included
I tried my best. I did 40% water changes everyday for the first 7 days to keep the shock down. Then, approximately 10 days after the introduction of all these fish, I had my first taste of hair algae.
I assume this is hair Algae. Whatever it was, it was everywhere. Take particular note of the snail. It was growing on his shell.
This stuff dominated my maintenance routine for the rest of the tanks life. It covered the glass, which wasn't difficult to remove, but given the depth of my tank it was a really time consuming job keeping it clean. It covered the driftwood too, which it seemed to grip onto because the only way to remove it was a vigorous scrubbing with a toothbrush. What are people's opinions of what the exact causes may have been? I assume this was triggered by the sudden increase in bioload - or is this just typical of a medium-high light tank without Co2/Ferts?
The other observations I'd make about the tank at this point were the plants growth rates. I was very surprised at the lack of growth. I expected as much from the Java Ferns and Anubias, which were beginning to show signs of BBA by now, but not the other plants. The Vallis and Indian Fern were not growing at all. In fact, their condition was deteriorating. The Vallis was fading to a pale green/yellow colour and the Indian Fern was losing is lower leaves. I'm afraid I never took any photo's of the plants in this state, so I can't give you any more than that.
It seemed my new tank was perfectly suitable for growing algae, but not plants. Hmm. I STILL hadn't found out about Co2, apart from a few mentions on the internet, nor had I bothered to read about ferts. Shamefully I didn't dose ferts even though I had some Profito from my last set up. Algae must be thriving on the ferts provided by the fish, I thought, why throw more in?!
Hi all,
Because light energy drives photosynthesis and CO2 and nutrient uptake, as you increase the PAR you need to raise levels of CO2 and nutrients as well. I think of this like juggling, "low" is a low, slow juggle, as you ramp up the light and nutrients (including CO2) the juggle becomes higher and faster, and things have the potential to go wrong much more quickly. This is situation 1 and 2, in the case of situation 3, we have a successful "high juggle".
From <has anyone read this? (sears-conlin article on algae) | UK Aquatic Plant Society> (quite an entertaining discussion, including some "handbags").
Have a look a this post for the effects of ramping the light up
<?orrible algae problem, advice needed | UK Aquatic Plant Society>.
We can't reduce nutrients or CO2 easily, but we can limit them. We can reduce the light by using floating or emergent plants, these have access to aerial CO2, so aren't limited by CO2 availability and can utilise any available nutrients.
This is why I start using the "Duckweed Index", it is a KISS solution giving you some plant growth, but a lot of stability. <Duckweed index ferts advice | UK Aquatic Plant Society> & <Plants with Deficiency of something | UK Aquatic Plant Society>.
cheers Darrel
Perfect tank, if you have suitable plants, a relatively low fish load, low light and low nutrients (you need some of all macro and micro-nutrients), you have a fairly stable and resilient system.
Because light energy drives photosynthesis and CO2 and nutrient uptake, as you increase the PAR you need to raise levels of CO2 and nutrients as well. I think of this like juggling, "low" is a low, slow juggle, as you ramp up the light and nutrients (including CO2) the juggle becomes higher and faster, and things have the potential to go wrong much more quickly. This is situation 1 and 2, in the case of situation 3, we have a successful "high juggle".
Have a look a this post for the effects of ramping the light up
Green algae is exactly the same photosynthetically as all the higher plants, ferns and mosses. If you create conditions that are suitable for plant growth, you also create conditions that are suitable for green algae. The algae you have on the stones is a totally natural and inevitable part of creating conditions suitable for plant growth. The only ways to stop it, are to have organisms that eat it (probably snails in this case), or to physically remove by scrubbing. The other option is to reduce one of the 3 pillars that support plant growth, light, CO2 or nutrients.
We can't reduce nutrients or CO2 easily, but we can limit them. We can reduce the light by using floating or emergent plants, these have access to aerial CO2, so aren't limited by CO2 availability and can utilise any available nutrients.
This is why I start using the "Duckweed Index", it is a KISS solution giving you some plant growth, but a lot of stability. <Duckweed index ferts advice | UK Aquatic Plant Society> & <Plants with Deficiency of something | UK Aquatic Plant Society>.
cheers Darrel
D
Darwin88
Guest
Wow, that's fascinating, thanks Darrel.
Nice analogy...easy for a beginner to understand
And as for the algae picture... - I have no words...
I'm beginning to agree with the opinions of people on the forum on this subject. I think waging a war on this 'gentle' alage would be an unnecessary headache. It does indeed add age and character to the hardscape, so in future I think I'll give it room in my aquascapes. It's the hair algae and BBA stuff that I can't stand to look at.
Thanks for the links, I'll keep those for reading material later.
Just one question - what do you mean by 'duckweed style fert application'? That's not something I've come across before.
Cheers
Nice analogy...easy for a beginner to understand
And as for the algae picture...
- I have no words...I'm beginning to agree with the opinions of people on the forum on this subject. I think waging a war on this 'gentle' alage would be an unnecessary headache. It does indeed add age and character to the hardscape, so in future I think I'll give it room in my aquascapes. It's the hair algae and BBA stuff that I can't stand to look at.
Thanks for the links, I'll keep those for reading material later.
Just one question - what do you mean by 'duckweed style fert application'? That's not something I've come across before.
Cheers
Hi all,
cheers Darrel
Sorry links above should be working now,. Have a look a this link as well: <Low maintainence, long term sustrate | UK Aquatic Plant Society>
cheers Darrel