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500l discus tank

4 vaillants...
fantastic - I'm still trying for these (they've been on the lists but none shipped for whatever reason :()

Unfortunately I'm having to treat the chocos for velvet
Sorry to read this ... hope all goes well

I've been struggling with mine as well - first lot came with some of the worst ich (apparently shop & wholesaler lost their stock as well) - none of the meds I tried made any difference ... or perhaps they just allowed the fish to linger on, fish would begin feeling better, then relapse, mostly just saw a few spots, then one day they were absolutely covered :bawling:

Second lot has done much better BUT I also decided to feed medicated food - I chose Seachem's Metronidazole (used with Focus to improve binding of the metronidazole to the food), it has anti-bacterial as well as anti-parasitic activity & leaves food palatable: feed 3-5 days, then repeat in 1-2 weeks (or few days if you see any return of any symptoms), during this time I feed quite heavily every 12 hours or so, food is a mix of decapsulated brine shrimp eggs & frozen

I've also been doing more water changes & fish always seem "happier" afterwards.
 
- I chose Seachem's Metronidazole (
I'll see how they go with the Protozin but will buy in the stuff you mentioned to have if necessary. Today they are back to active and feeding well.
 
We are about to embark on a loft conversion. A steel joist has to be put in the lounge ceiling. Right above the tank. We had assumed that it would go in from above but noooo, ceiling and wall have to be cut into. Right above the tank. So I'm going to have to strip it down



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The wheels have to be screwed to the base so wouldn't be able to get them on now. Also they are very expensive as I did consider them for my other tank. The tank and stand are incredibly heavy just with a little water in. I put felt feet on the base so could slide on our oak floor but just a couple of inches of water made this impossible and the stand creaked alarmingly (I did not build it ) This is a pretty big tank and has 20kg of rock and a large amount of soil too. I also want to move the fish to another room away where there is less work being done so not so much dust. I'm probs going to set up the juwel 180 has a holding tank for the fish.


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frustrating news :banghead:

Hope fish are feeling better

but take a look at the wheels Mark Evans put on his tank
(I just searched in Featured Journals for wheels + Mark Evans - there are a few posts with mention)
One of the chocos has virtually no tail left. I was feeding them and checking by torch light. Not sure if they are getting a secondary infection. Heart breaking to see. All the other species in the tank are fine and healthy looking, it is just the chocos suffering. The other tank is fine though and the 2 adult chocos in there are still doing great.

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Do you have any photos of your vaillanti?
I lost all the vaillants. One died soon after arriving. It was being bullied by one of the others then became sick. I had the other 2 for a couple of months but one was always bullying the other and eventually it became sick too. The last one then set about bullying the much larger adult chocos. One day it was dead, no sign of disease or even of being off colour beforehand. So I have none and wouldn't have them again. I prefer chocos but if this lot don't make it i won't get any more and my 2 adults will just have to get along unless I can find someone local keeping a large group successfully.

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Looking great...straight forward and with a ruler:rolleyes:
Not quite the same I know, but I put B&Q frosted film on the back of my shallow. What a mare; it took me 3 attempts to get right (had to buy more) and even then it's a bit dodgy in places so I reckon you've done really well.

I always use eSHa products because they can be used together to give a broad spectrum treatment if necessary, and they are very effective and shrimp and plant safe;)
Good you've got it all under control now tho'.

P.S. what's the secret to doing the corners?
 
Tim I had given them a course of esha exit and Hexamita and then run carbon to remove the meds. Within 8hrs they were at the surface some with difficulty swimming.
Corners? Be really careful lol...

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I had given them a course of esha exit and Hexamita and then run carbon to remove the meds. Within 8hrs they were at the surface some with difficulty swimming.
Ok that's a bit concerning. Do you reckon that was to do with mixing the meds? I'd be interested to know 'casue Exit and Hexamita are supposed to be safe together and well tolerated.
 
Heartbreaking :(
these fish seem to have little resistance to aquarium (trade) diseases (may go to their natural habitat re low pH etc)

I usually treat with formalin (eg, Hikari Ich X for salt water) for external parasites as they seem to tolerate this well BUT recent ich bout showed limited sensitivity to formalin or Seachem ParaGuard (fish were "managing" as long as I maintained high med dose, but relapse was swift as soon as I backed off on formalin/ParaGuard & fish always showed some ich spots, then secondary infections as time stretched on)
I lost all of the first group
When a second group showed a first ich spot, again started with formalin etc, then after a few days began feeding the Metro-food, within 36h they looked their best since arrival - all fin blemishes etc cleared within 3 -4 days
BUT I still lost another choco that suddenly was isolated at bottom corner, no food response, then DOA next day (I'm convinced these are bacterial infections - Kanamycin would be my antibiotic of choice (Seachem) but with choco's it's not well tolerated as a bath & food palatability isn't great)

For good news, the S acrostoma group has been outstanding, they went straight onto Metro-food (and they are sourced from a transhipper & farm that would always be my first choice ... if I had my choice in these things ;) ) These guys are active & not shy at all (after the first couple days) - much more outgoing than S osphromenoides ... which means they don't really sound like (interwebz reports) acrostoma
I subjected my group to close scrutiny - they certainy look nothing like
Wild Sphaerichthys acrostoma

I fed frozen bloodworm today & it seemed like not enough judging by the post-lunch aggression, so I added in some frozen brine shrimp - although I've seen these guys eat plenty of frozen brine, today it was as if I'd given them bits of paper :oops: :sorry: (except the Neocaridinae shrimp said different) ... they got more bloodworm for dinner :D
(the S acrostoma have been kept very separate from the S osphromenoides)

Anyway apologies for my rambling on your journal :sorry:
(again :eek: )

I also want to move the fish to another room away where there is less work being done so not so much dust.
agree on this one!
I suspect fish would much prefer being distant from the construction.
 
Ok that's a bit concerning. Do you reckon that was to do with mixing the meds? I'd be interested to know 'casue Exit and Hexamita are supposed to be safe together and well tolerated.
I think that the velvet was still present and without meds in the water it had perhaps taken advantage of this? I'm not sure but the fish were fine while on the meds so I wouldn't blame them.
 
Kanamycin would be my antibiotic of choice (Seachem) but with choco's it's not well tolerated as a bath & food palatability isn't great)
I have Furan 2 which treats gram positive and negative. Just not sure about dosing that along with the protozin. I'm wondering if the protozin isn't working as I half dosed because of soft water and sensitive fish combo. All the other fish seem tp be coping fine, my couple of liquorice males left in the tank have excellent colour and the eel loach are out and about. Many of the chocos look fine, some have a grey look to their tails with little bits missing. A couple have clamped tails and there is the one that is pale and has only a little tail left. I'm on day 5 of Protozin which is a no dose day then tomorrow is the last day which is another dose. Wondering whether to give a bigger dose. Protozin suposed to treat fungus too. Don't want to harm the healthy fish with a higher dose though.
Feck, this is frustrating.
Ph is sitting at 5.5. I'd drop it lower but I don't think the cory habrosus would do well?
For good news, the S acrostoma group has been outstanding, they went straight onto Metro-food (and they are sourced from a transhipper & farm that would always be my first choice ... if I had my choice in these things ;) ) These guys are active & not shy at all (after the first couple days) - much more outgoing than S osphromenoides ... which means they don't really sound like (interwebz reports) acrostoma
I subjected my group to close scrutiny - they certainy look nothing like
Wild Sphaerichthys acrostoma

My wild acrostoma from Colin were incredibly shy and I must admit they didn't really do it for me so I gave them back to Colin. Mine looked like the ones in the video.
 
Active ingredients in Furan-2: 60 mg Nitrofurazone and 25 mg Furazolidone per packet (each packet treats 10 g).
note this is older information so API may've adjusted the amounts
Note that both components are photo-sensitive so keep things dim (not sure if this is on the packet or not)

BUT (& this is why I used to rail at the aquarium product industry)
Furazolidone 20mg/litre continuous bath for 5 days
Nitrofurazone (brand name Furanace in older literature) - external infections only as there appears to be no actual uptake, dips are recommended protocol on this med rather than continuous baths
189–756 mg/10 gallons for1 h, repeat daily for 10 days
378 mg/10 gallons for 6-12 h, repeat daily for 10 days

There is often synergy of drugs but I couldn't find anything scientific regarding API's mix

(as I recall most fish infections are gram -ve (don't quote me on this as there may be new evidence of more gram +ve infectiions), then there are the ones such as Mycobacterium marinum (fish TB) which don't take up gram stain so not classified by that term)

This article is well worth perusing
Bacterial & Parasitic Diseases of Pet Fish
it's a decent "broad stroke" article that is very generously shared by the author for personal use (2009)

Chris Andrews et al The Manual of Fish Health is slightly dated but the photos & basic information are still valid
( "new" diseases have since been identified, some old ones have updated information, (acquired)antibiotic resistance is a significant factor ... eg Nitrofurazone resistance has been reported in various bacteria)

I do know people that are great fans of Furan-2
I've just never been convinced myself, I used it back when (most fish display significant stress - which is always a major consideration in fish as it suppresses the immune system) & switched to Kannamcyn & other Seachem products (the medications they market have scientific basis in ornamental fish studies & are often pure compounds without addiitives ... even their "Focus" has proven activity)

Most manufacturers are very conservative in their dosing protocols, so while it's always good to begin with a half dose, observe fish for 30-60min, then add the remaining dose - it's also common for hobbyist medications to be delivered at below "threshold" concentration for active ingredient levels.

I suggest that you remove the choco's to a quarantine tank of manageable volume eg, 10 -20 gal so that you can easily perform daily water changes & afford to medicate daily.
Again despite packet directions, most studies done with medicating fish are based upon daily water change & daily application of active ingredient protocols - most meds degrade under aquarium conditions so this way active ingredient levels are more consistent.
In general the toxicity vs treatment dosage is quite large (often factors of 10x or more - though there are always "sensitive" species)

If possible set up 2 x10 gal tanks,
Day 1, Tank 1 - dose & add fish
Day 2, Tank 2 - dose & transfer fish
Day 3, Tank1 has been emptied & wiped down & refilled with suitable water - dose & transfer fish
etc

Note that I do not find choco's sensitive to water changes, I balance temp etc & they always seem "happier" even when I accidentally do 90% rather than the intended 60 - 70%
(again I began with conservative water changes as is generally recommended with these fish: note that my tap is rainwater soft)

Dim lighting, sponge filter is all you need, if humid, tanks can be uncovered (re labyrinth fish), though I prefer to keep covered re jumping

Temperature - if anything bacterial, stay on the low side (23-25C for S osphromenoides)
If parasitic, elevated temp is generally recommended as higher temp means more active metabolism in fish which can help EXCEPT if loads of gill involvement the lowered oxygen levels in water can be more detrimental than the metabolic boost.

Apologies on the lecture
 
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