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ADA 60F iwagumi

Thanks guys and turned gas up and see what happens I know what the white algae is now its just algae and crap from the filter pipes coming out of spray bar and attaching to grass :rolleyes: lol but upped gas anyway and hopefully kills of the rest of the brown algae

Thanks dean
 
well since upped the gas to constant fast flow and yellow bubble counter the algae doesn't seem to have gotten any worse but all the algae in bottom of the bunches of hair grass is still there and sure stopping growth as very very slow never seems to have grown for ages if anything looks less hairgrass :(, also the plants now have algae on leaves but this wipes off so will have to do all them individually, this is the same algae that I had problems with on the first set of hair grass and eventually seems barley no grass at all adding large amounts of co2 doesn't seem to get rid of it at all haven't tried removing manually yet but will tomorrow but that will be some labour intensive job but if that's what it takes I will do it ;) I am really keen to get this tank looking good as I am starting to get sick of this battle, I honestly don't feel like I am doing enough I change water every 2-3 days and cleaned out lilly pipes + filter sponges every week of so, daily I only check the temp is there more regular maintenance I should be doing as feel like waiting and waiting but nothing changing? or should I be doing any routine checks etc ?

also the very light substrate makes grass come to surface very easily even when trying to clean grass by hovering over with syphon it is already so close to surface of substrate it comes out and them plant deeper but makes look like less grass , I have moved lighting unit a little higher aswel but if I really want growth I know I need more light but know I cannot while battling algae anyway any help or suggestions of change would be appreciated

also should I add any livestock anytime soon to clean up only problem is shrimp keep jumping

Thanks dean
 
Wow sounds like you are having a battle , I had one 24watt bulb (Hagen glo) over my 120 liter and still got some algae , but not a lot though .
Errr maybe do a black out ?? Do a big water change over dose with excell then completely black out for 48hrs , no light what so ever then do another water change and drop photo period down an hour :/ .
That's just my idea :)
Cheers
 
Samjpikey said:
Wow sounds like you are having a battle , I had one 24watt bulb (Hagen glo) over my 120 liter and still got some algae , but not a lot though .
Errr maybe do a black out ?? Do a big water change over dose with excell then completely black out for 48hrs , no light what so ever then do another water change and drop photo period down an hour :/ .
That's just my idea :)
Cheers
Click to expand...

Thanks sam I might try a blank out as adding plenty co2 doesn't seem to work, so you think best bet would be to do large 70% or so water change black out and cover tank for 48hours with blanket or similar then another water change and check ? should I still add the co2 and should I not do EI for them 2 days and is it wise to overdose with excel and don't want plants to get used to extra ferts ?

Thanks for input mate
 
I'm not telling you to do it but its just a suggestion , if the current algae outbreak is not getting worse but yet not going away , then maybe a blackout would kill off the remaining algae which seems to be sticking around , I wouldn't run the co2 and just literally shut the tank down from light, with a good water change and normal dose of Ei and overdose of excell followed by a completely covered tank up for 48hrs then do a big water change dose excell again and reduce photo period , that's what I would do but you may want to clarify with someone else 1st as I am no expert :)
That hopefully should rid of the algae to some degree and could give you somewhere to start again :)
Hope this helps
Sam
 
anyone else have any ideas or think blackout is best bet ?

also anyone recommend any good aquascape books to read and look at pics ? was looking at Nature Aquarium: Complete Works 1985-2009 but very expensive at 30 pounds unless can find a second hand one on here want one that's easy-ish to understand and very informative and helpful

thanks dean
 
Thanks for the advise everyone think I will do a blackout tomorrow and Monday, I will cover with blanket and turn off co2 and lights will still do EI dosing and dose 3ml of liquid carbon daily hopefully kills the algae, what should I do after the black out water change then I will add large amounts of co2 and keep carrying out water changes in order to get rid of the algae

this sound ok ?

(also any info on books what I mentioned in last post)

Thanks again Dean
 
Dean, I still think there is a fundamental problem somewhere along the line with your setup ... sorry mate but something is still not right!

You have a small tank with no fish & you say you are pumping in co2 at a fast rate, well if that is the case your plants should be growing like mad with no algae issues.

I don't know why you are having problems but there has got to be a reason why your plants are showing the symptoms of poor C02...it has to be - the C02 is not reaching the plants due to poor flow or there is too much flow & the C02 is gassing off or the plants are not getting enough nutrition (ferts) or the c02 is not dissolving properly ... I don't know but something is not right!

Just look at other tanks on the forum, why is your tank not growing like mad?

99% of the time poor plant growth & algae related issues are directly related to lack of C02 being absorbed by the plants but, the solution is sometimes difficult because the tank houses fish & you can only turn up the C02 so much before you distress or even kill the fish!
In you case you can add as much C02 as you like, as much fertiliser as you like & just match the light to suit however your plants are not exactly going mad on the growth stakes & also have algae which still suggest not enough gas.
If you feel everything is operating properly & the gas is being properly dissolved and distributed around the tank, you have plenty of ferts then you must still have to much light or not enough C02?
Do you think you might have a C02 leak? how much fertiliser are you dosing, how big is your filter & how are you dissolving the C02?
 
Thanks for the lengthy reply fox fish appreciate it, firstly I have checked for a co2 leak and none found checked regulator and pipes up to the up aqua inline diffuser I will take some pics of filter + co2 system when finish, I totally agree growth is very slow and barley at all, I now use a spray at which creates flow and drop checker yellow I know not to rely on it though, loads of bubbles in the tank from the inline diffuser, also the pipe from diffuser to the tank gets white algae like goo inside I think this must be from co2, the filter is enheim thermo and rated for much much larger tank I will have to look through firat pages to see exact model as I am currently at work, I dose 6.5 ml daily from ei so one day I dose micro and next macro and have 1 day break, the light is way way above tank and is 24w Hagen plower or glow I think it's power bulb

That's what I thought if my last was hight aslong as adding enough ferts and co2 should still be no algae I will get pics of whole setup when I finish only one problem I know of and that's the co2 regulator fluctuates but unable to find fault but I do have a spare I could try if we suspect this, I tryed taking vid of this a while ago but couldn't upload for some reason

Your help is very much appreciated and really want to get to bottom of this never ending battle as I am determined to have thriving aquarium

Thanks Dean
 
unable to take pics as camera needs charged will upload tomorrow foxfish, also the filter is enheim pro 2324 external filter up to 250l

thanks dean
 
here is few pics foxfish of tank done 2 day blackout but doesn't seem to have done much just doesn't look thriving
v0m9.jpg

xh0u.jpg

uh59.jpg

this is before black out struggling to upload a video onto image shack for some reason took a short vid of tank, terrible but you get to see flow and co2 etc, white stuff on hair grass in bottom pic is algae from inside lilly pipes but stay ontop of it now , need to get this sorted you think maybe too much light even from were the light is sitting 1m above tank ? could change the 24w power bulb for the glo bulb?

thanks dean

Thanks deam
 
Has the algae made any sign of deterioration ??
That's what you need to look for , it's not going to look thriving after a 2day black out but the objective was to try and kill off any visable algae
Cheers
 
I agree with foxfish. The OP needs to check the CO2 concentration profile by measuring the pH at regular intervals before and during the photoperiod. Liquid carbon addition is another good way to verify that the problems are CO2 related or not. I' not really a fan of lily pipes, especially those that point upward which blow CO2 straight out the window, but I understand the aesthetic appeal.

Cheers,
 
Deano3 said:
anyone else have any ideas or think blackout is best bet ?

also anyone recommend any good aquascape books to read and look at pics ? was looking at Nature Aquarium: Complete Works 1985-2009 but very expensive at 30 pounds unless can find a second hand one on here want one that's easy-ish to understand and very informative and helpful

thanks dean
Click to expand...


The internet is nice and free :) Save every nice scape you see into your HDD and flip through them when you have time. Also good to have a text file telling where you found them so you can go back and look at specs, setup, etc.
 
Samjpikey said:
Has the algae made any sign of deterioration ??
That's what you need to look for , it's not going to look thriving after a 2day black out but the objective was to try and kill off any visable algae
Cheers
Click to expand...

no not really doesn't seem to have went from bottom of the hairgrass at all :( was worth a try though.

ceg4048 said:
I agree with foxfish. The OP needs to check the CO2 concentration profile by measuring the pH at regular intervals before and during the photoperiod. Liquid carbon addition is another good way to verify that the problems are CO2 related or not. I' not really a fan of lily pipes, especially those that point upward which blow CO2 straight out the window, but I understand the aesthetic appeal.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input mate so does the PH readings change as higher levels of co2 concentration enter the tank ? and I will do this and report back but how often should Itake PH readings , should I do it 2 hours before when co2 just comes on then every 2 hours or so ?

should I start dosing liquid carbon aswel and how much you advise 3-4 ml

and lastly I agree about lilly pipes they do aesthetically look good and I have removed the o-bubble one for now until get sorted and have the spray bar but that is also facing up slightly so don't get surface film, eventually might have to get the more common style lily pipe, thanks for your help and expertise its appreciated, I hope to get sorted and get my tank thriving ASAP

Thanks Dean
 
Dean,
It would be ideal to take readings from 30 minutes before gas on until gas off at 30 minute intervals. Then you will know what the unsaturated value is prior to gas and getting a datum point at lights on will tell you how effective your dissolution is. Again, "Ideally", assuming your KH is medium to low, there should be a 1 unit drop. from before gas on to lights on. We can only rarely ever achieve that without causing the CO2 levels to reach toxic levels further into the photoperiod. Your problem may "simply" be that you're not saturating the tank with gas early enough into the photperiod. This is actually the most common problem. If that isn't the cause then we have to look deeper at the setup.

Adding liquid carbon is a very simple verification of CO2 deficiency. If the plant health improves immediately as we start adding the liquid then we know that CO2 uptake is a problem. If it helps then you just keep using it until the gas is sorted and then it can be gradually withdrawn. Dose 2X or 3X the bottle suggestions because you have no fish and I think those plants have a high tolerance for liquid carbon. Carpet plants and most stems, even mosses, respond well to liquid carbon.

Your plants looked OK in the earlier stages so the present configuration worked at a lower plant mass, but it seems to have faltered as the plants got beefier. There is more blocked flow and the demand is higher due to higher mass. Filters may have gotten dirtier and more blocked over time. Try removing some media, especially if it's chocked full of media. Keep it unblocked with frequent cleaning.

Cheers,
 
ceg4048 said:
Dean,
It would be ideal to take readings from 30 minutes before gas on until gas off at 30 minute intervals. Then you will know what the unsaturated value is prior to gas and getting a datum point at lights on will tell you how effective your dissolution is. Again, "Ideally", assuming your KH is medium to low, there should be a 1 unit drop. from before gas on to lights on. We can only rarely ever achieve that without causing the CO2 levels to reach toxic levels further into the photoperiod. Your problem may "simply" be that you're not saturating the tank with gas early enough into the photperiod. This is actually the most common problem. If that isn't the cause then we have to look deeper at the setup.

Adding liquid carbon is a very simple verification of CO2 deficiency. If the plant health improves immediately as we start adding the liquid then we know that CO2 uptake is a problem. If it helps then you just keep using it until the gas is sorted and then it can be gradually withdrawn. Dose 2X or 3X the bottle suggestions because you have no fish and I think those plants have a high tolerance for liquid carbon. Carpet plants and most stems, even mosses, respond well to liquid carbon.

Your plants looked OK in the earlier stages so the present configuration worked at a lower plant mass, but it seems to have faltered as the plants got beefier. There is more blocked flow and the demand is higher due to higher mass. Filters may have gotten dirtier and more blocked over time. Try removing some media, especially if it's chocked full of media. Keep it unblocked with frequent cleaning.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

great help there clive thanks, bad news though I am just starting my 4 day shift pattern tomorrow so wont be able to do the readings test until next Thursday :( but I will be dosing 3ml daily of liquid carbon until then and continue my EI dosing, tonight or tomorrow I will do filter clean by squeezing out the sponges and rinsing the media trays in tank water and cleaning pipes, does the pipe after the up aqua inline diffuser usually get white sludge into from the co2 ?

also totally agree plants went ok and since planted the rest its went wrong :( but we will work it out, I remember when everyone said get a big tank so you don't buy smaller one then have to shell out again for bigger one wish I done that lol I cannot wait to have bigger tank as don't think this satisfy me with large shoal etc but once sorted will start looking for larger one and sell this one just ish done it in first place but didn't want to spend fortune then get bored but if anything I love the hobby more now and know I will keep it up until have a stunning scape one day :D

Thanks again clive
Dean
 
well done large water change today and cleaned the glass and squeezed filter sponges out and cleaned piping best I could and also after I was finished I added 10ml carbon is it good idea to dose after water change as taking most of ferts out of water ? also dropped and smashed my nano gush drop checker :mad: and I am sick of white powderlike film on surface of water but if I face spray bar up wastes the co2

Dean
 
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