• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up

Advice needed- external filter media

You don't want the external filter media to act as a mechanical filter, you want it purely to act as a biological filter.

Well the plot thickens even more. Here I have everyone else telling me that I don't need ANY biological filtration in my external, only mechanical, and now you are saying the exact opposite? Now I am even more confused.


I was thinking of doing the following:

Bottom tray:

Coarse Sponge
Poly Pad

Middle tray:

MINIMAL bio media (maybe some alfagrog or something)

Top tray:

Poly Pad

Anything wrong with that...?
 
Thanks for this thread - really interesting and thought provoking. I have watched the Tyne Valley videos many times and he is very convincing. Equally people who raise fry and keep shrimp just use sponge filters and no actual media as such. Shrimp and fry are probably more sensitive to water conditions than mature fish but the sponges seem to work well as both a mechanical and bio filter. Many moons ago (before www and forums) I kept a fairly heavily stocked tank with just an undergravel filter and I don't remember problems and certainly no disasters. Perhaps these days with more knowledge and more choice we tend to go in circles trying to have the perfect tank when most things seem to work either on their own or in combinations. If I bought an empty canister filter I would get scrubbies but I have plenty of ceramic rings, bio balls etc so I don't need to. Flow seems to be more important than media and I doubt if anyone has worked out what is sufficient media - probably a lot less than we all think! Thanks for all the posts, I have learnt a lot and hopefully will learn some more.
 
Hi all,
Shrimp and fry are probably more sensitive to water conditions than mature fish but the sponges seem to work well as both a mechanical and bio filter.
All though the sponge is a mechanical filter it is also a very good bio filter, as long ad you have good flow through the filter you could use gravel, it doesn't matter.
Yes that is it really, sponge is a great mechanical and biological filter, I like PPI10 or PPI20 sponges, because I'm not interested in polishing my water.

Nearly any biological media will do, all I want is that it doesn't impede flow too much, if flow is impeded the water can become locally de-oxygenated.

I came to realise that even really experienced aquarists often didn't understand this fully, with potentially catastrophic results. This was why I wrote <http://plecoplanet.com/?page_id=829>.

I want ammonia and as much dissolved oxygen as possible in the filter, I don't want anything else.
I have watched the Tyne Valley videos many times and he is very convincing.
I've seen these as well with the wick test etc., and it is very interesting and the fish look really healthy, but it isn't really relevant to us.

In an unplanted situation you are dependent upon microbial conversion of NH3 > NO2- > NO3-, you can tell this process needs oxygen because you've gone from 3 hydrogen ions for every nitrogen, to 3 oxygen ions, and it also needs a carbon source. The only ways you can then remove the resultant NO3 is by dilution via water changes, or the anaerobic out-gassing of N2 gas. This oxygen requirement is why the measure of pollution for water and liquid effluents is its "Biochemical Oxygen Demand" (BOD).

Marine Aquarists went away from "wet & dry" trickle filters because they are "nitrate factories", but all that really means is that they are very efficient at biological filtration. They often don't have plants, and are reluctant to change large volumes of water, and because of this they developed systems like plenums and deep sand beds to allow for anaerobic de-nitrification.

Anaerobic de-nitrification will always have risks involved because if the REDOX or ORP values become too large the whole system may become anaerobic with catastrophic results. This is why trying to have both processes happening in the same filter (via filter media with very fine pores and slow water flow) is a recipe for disaster.

Wet and dry trickle filters are the "gold standard" for biological filtration, but we can do even better than this, we have plants that take up NH3, NO2- and NO3-, produce oxygen and provide lots of surfaces (particularly in the substrate), that support biological filtration.

Plant/microbe biological filtration systems, with floating or emergent plants, are about an order of magnitude more effective than microbe alone systems, and this means that we are much less dependent upon water changes (and often have to add NO3, rather than try to remove it).

Cheers Darrel
 
Many thanks DW1305 for your lengthy and detailed response, you have helped me to understand the process more clearly. It has also solved my holiday reading problem!
 
I decided in the end to get Sera Siporax media for the bio media in the external.

So I was thinking of doing this, from bottom to top:

Blue coarse
Filter floss

Sera Siporax

Filter floss

Do I have enough mechanical filtration, or should I add another blue sponge before the floss?
 
Personally I'd lose at least one lot of the floss.I'd rather have to clean sponges more often,than lose the flow brought on by clogged floss.
Just a thought.
 
I'd use active carbon instead of siporax, but I'm sure it'll be fine like that Sacha :)
 
A lot of externals have sponge recommended on every for every tray then the media ,noodles on top and floss on sponge at top
 
Back
Top