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Alternanthera Reineckii melting!

Matti

Member
Joined
12 Aug 2021
Messages
89
Location
Helsinki, Finland
Hello,
suddenly my Alternanthera Reineckii is starting to melt!
Don't know why, has been growing well so far.
The only thing I am suspicious of is the use of EasyCarbo, I've dose 2-3ml daily in my 55planted tank to get rid of the annoying BBA.

Matti
 
 
OK, specs:
-Dennerle 55l, Dennerle scapersflo filter, CO2 injection, two Chihiros C2 lights
-PH 7,1
-KH4
-GH9
-NO2 0,05
-NO3 20
-K 15
-Fe 0,05
-PO4? Just cannot get a reliable reading with JBL test, too hard to see any differences in the very weak color tones

From distance the tank looks ok. But look closer and you see something is not right as the leaves have started to melt.
Cannot think anything else than the EasyCarbo, as I have been slightly overdosing it, to get rid of the BBA.
As for the BBA, nothing seems to be working. My last hope is to stop adding ferts and reduce the fish food to absolute minimum.

Matti
 

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I would not reduce fertz for sure. Are you confident that your flow and distribution is spot on? Could be that the plants are blocking CO2 delivery to that middle section..
 
As for the BBA, nothing seems to be working. My last hope is to stop adding ferts and reduce the fish food to absolute minimum.
Probably not the popular answer but you could always try reducing the light intensity, I see in the pics gsa, bba and leaf melt, all classic symptoms of too much light. Also suspect some predation by shrimp or plecos.
 
You are reading Nitrite but haven’t tested for Ammonia, it’s likely elevated also as you’ve likely disrupted the capacity of the nitrifying bacteria in the tank by using a biocide to rid BBA, some plants won’t appreciate that ammonia. Don’t starve the plants they need elements in the parts per million to be healthy algae only needs parts per billion, if you withdraw their nutrition they will starve and obliterate before you can rectify the problem when it becomes apparent. Dose both more Iron and phosphate as the two are quite capable of removing each other from the water column. If you can’t read the phosphate test results because it’s not indicating strongly enough then your very short on that element, while you’re shortchanging the plants on the Inorganic phosphate they need to survive and thrive the Algae in the tank is quite adept at eating the organic variety released by decaying plant tissue and fish food.

You can choose to supplement more Iron using a longer lived chelate like DTPA or just dose more of the Micro nutrients you have on hand (?EDTA chelated).

:)
 
Thanks for the answers but unfortunately I am just getting more confused. My aquarium shop keeper keeps saying to mee that the only cause of BBA is too much nutrients in the water, that I should cut down the fish food (and ferts). And that iron is the worst.
And now I'm reading that I should add more iron?

I'm quite new to the hobby and all this information is making my head ache. I've managed to deal with all the problems so far by trial and error, except for the BBA. EasyCarbo helped but it just didn't feel right, and now is the problem with the melting leaves.

As for the phosphate tests, I find them hopeless. I know there are phosphates in the tank but just cannot read the test tube. I put 1ml of Seachem Phosphate into 1 l water, that is 50x what i put in a tank, and even then it's hard to read. I ordered the Hanna Phosphate checker, if that doesn't work, I just stop thinking about phosphates. (It's expensive and makes me feel like an idiot as I know that real men don't do water tests)
 
And now two of my sparkling gouramis have disappeared ! The smoking gun must be the glutaraldehyde.
What I am now trying, I did two 50% water changes, I stop adding EasyCarbo, feed the fish mainly with live Artemis, increase co2 slightly and dose only micros.
I check the NO3 to keep under 20, and I will check phosphates as soon as I get the Hanna checker, the phosphate drop checkers are for me just waste of time and money.
 
Hopefully you’ve purchased the Phosphate LR (low range) checker and not the Phosphate ULR (ultra low range checker) otherwise depending on the Phosphate level the ULR device will go out of range and to get a reading you have to use serial dilution to get the reading in range then multiply the result with how much dilution you performed to get the in range reading.

28A420E0-5918-4AF3-9252-8716A1231549.jpeg


That’s my Phosphate level after checking it with the Hannah ULR checker. It’s an out of range reading for the device but serial dilution and a bit of math gave me a reliable result. That reading is my most recent taken about 6 months ago.

I don’t have a problem with testing unless it begins to feel like a chore, it’s easier to calculate what you put into the tank than to test for it.

:)
 
Thanks for the comment, I ordered the ULR and will now change the order to LR
 
For what its worth I have managed to melt Alternanthera Reineckii Mini in the past when spot dosing adjacent anubias with Excel to get rid of BBA - it seems to be particularly sensitive to glut. As a plant, it was also was also more than happy to suddenly shed it's lower leaves if they started to get shaded - your images looks as if they older leaves are most affected by algae. Also as others have said, Amano's are known to consider them a delicacy if you have them in the tank.

If it were me, I'd rip the Alternanthera Reineckii and replace with something a bit more robust. If you want to treat any persistent BBA on other plants like the epiphytes, spot dose it with glute with the filter off for 15 minutes using a syringe or pipette, but don't exceed the full tank dose. I always found tank dosing much less effective at eliminating BBA than spot dosing.

Finally, stop wasting time measuring water column nutrient levels, and just dose EI levels of ferts, given how heavily planted your tank is. The ferts don't cause algae, so you can add them without concern.

As @John q mentions, you are running quite a lot of light. You don't mention what percentage you are running the two C2 lights at, but despite their small size, they are quite bright lights at 20W / 1580 lumens each. if you are running them at 100%, try dialling them down to reduce the CO2 demand. I have one running on my shrimp tank, granted its low tech and only 20 litres, but I've found 15% with plenty of surface plant cover more than sufficient for the epiphytes I have in there.
 
The only thing I am suspicious of is the use of EasyCarbo, I've dose 2-3ml daily in my 55planted tank to get rid of the annoying BBA.

Glutaraldehyde is not an answer to BBA. It is however a decent crutch to ward off some distribution issues with Co2 in densely planted tanks, preventing leaf fringes decaying and feeding BBA. There’s a fundamental issue with your setup.

Look at your flow pattern:

1636405984647.jpeg


Can you see a problem? Consider how you can get your AR the Co2 it requires. Whilst the growth was low it may not have been too much of an issue. With the tank grown in, there’s no flow through the plants towards the back as far as we can see. Think about how your Co2 and ferts are being distributed throughout the tank without adequate flow. Soil will carry some of the burden for other mobile nutrients but Co2 distribution requires your attention.

Your glutaraldehyde addition may cause an initial adaptation period, but a lot of plants adapt in time but can shed old leaves temporarily. Guessing there might be Amano shrimp taking advantage of your woes, but can’t be sure.

However, look at your new growth:

1636406448311.jpeg


Please help the plant remainder by pinching off these has been leaves, they are only adding organics to the water column:

1636406522578.png


There’s more, but before that, what is the stocking of this tank for fish and invertebrates?
 
Thank's for all the comments, the flow is definetely a small issue as I have those thick RotalaHra bushes in the back. Not much what I can do about it, but I added an Oase Biocompact 25 filter to the back. It's a real ultranano-filter, but ads at least some flow.
As for the situation now, the melting has stopped, so I'm even more convinced that it was the Glutaraldehyde. And I blame it also for the unfortunate disappearance of my only Otoinclus and one of my Sparkling Gouramis. I have now six SG left, the only fish in the tank together with couple of snail and few Amanos.

BBA, I will continue my experiment with limiting the fish food and fertilisers to minimum. Lights are on 75% power and at the backof the tank, so the BBA infected Anubia and Buces are getting less light.

PS
The "fertilisers don't cause algae" is a bit hard for me to understand. If you look at environment and nature, we know that agricultural fertilisers cause huge problems in rivers, lakes, coastal waters. Especially now when summers are getting warmer. So why not in aquariums?


 
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