Any one have any experiance with this?

Discussion in 'Hardware & DIY' started by Garuf, 3 Mar 2008.

  1. Garuf

    Garuf Member

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  2. sks

    sks Guest

    I actually thought about doing this myself some years back but never bothered because I felt you would stress the pump.

    I had a long conversation with a reef hobbyist many years back about the effects of needle wheel impellers and what Eheim felt about it. He tells me that the pumps run hotter and impeller life was shortened (but then again I've never had he privilege to ever wear out an impeller).

    One thing I would be worried about is the hydrostatic effect going if the part where the impeller magnet and the shaft were dry because CO2 gas has filled the chamber, it would now not have water as a lubricant and wear down. Deltec can get away with putting their pumps upright since they do little lifting and literally blast into the chamber at no head so there is no chance of air filling in the chamber.
     
  3. GreenNeedle

    GreenNeedle Member

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    I may try this with the cheap £5 pumps that Wilko sell and stick it over my diffusor. If it wears out as per previous post the I can buy another at that price.

    I would of course put the 1mm hoels in the impellor blades as per another users comments on the thread.

    Good find Garuf

    Andy
     
  4. Garuf

    Garuf Member

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    I was going to use one of the maxijet pumps that do the rounds for about £15 can't see it being that much hassle, keep us informed on how it goes Andy.
     
  5. sks

    sks Guest

    Impeller blades are like fans, whether that is on a helicopter or a ceiling fan. They must be perfectly balanced to work effectively or else when something unbalanced rotates on it's shaft you get vibes produced. Also an unbalanced impeller will grind at the shaft it spins on - not good!

    So if you try to, what's the term, mutilate your impeller to copy the needle wheel principle I'd make sure that the impeller is balanced before putting it back, you do this by getting the shaft out and sliding the impeller in to spin it to see. Deltec and other companies wouldn't be bothering to make needle wheel impellers if we can DIY it ourselves you know.
     
  6. GreenNeedle

    GreenNeedle Member

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    This is a silly statement. Its like saying they wouldn't make CO2 reactors if you could make your own or they wouldn't sell branded filter film if you could just cust out the shapes from pond filter foam or they wouldn't make off the shelf ferts if you could make your own or they wouldn't sell Nutrafins if you could make a DIY. All of which we all know we can.

    Maybe we should just stop experimenting and spend loads of money on things that we can source cheaper or make ourselves.

    Therefore I must stop using pond dechlor and revert back to aquarium dechlor, Sell off my welding CO2 equipment and get aquarium labelled goods, stop using a dry powder based solution (that I made myself) replacing it with an off the shelf product. Take the PC Fans (that I fitted and wired myself) out of the hood and get an aquarium labelled setup. Use tank water and solution that the drop checker instructions ask for and ditch the 4dKH (that I made myself) Put the old original plastic aquarium canopy back on and throw out the pine one (which I built myself). Remove the playsand and replace it with proper aquarium sand. Remove the slate and pebbles that I didn't come from shops......Oh and get a proper aquarium stand instead of the pine cabinet that I bought to put it on.

    If you read the thread that Garug links too people are trying it and while making the point about balance they don't once say that an item wouldn't be manufactured if it were possible to make your own.

    anyway for £5 what does it matter if it doesn't work!

    Can everyone else stop putting their CO2 line into their filter. You have to buy a reactor or diffusor now.

    Garuf - I was also looking at the maxijet MP400 which is cheap at aquatics-online and has venturi action and hose intake as standard so could well be a good option. Will let you know how it works.

    Now excuse me. I have to throw out all the fresh fruit veg and meat I have and go out and buy some ready meals from Waitrose (To keep with the theme of spending more than I have to)

    A very peed off with pooh poers Andy
     
  7. GreenNeedle

    GreenNeedle Member

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    Well after the comments on the barrreport I have just ordered a Maxijet MP400 from aquatics online for £11.99+£3.50 shipping. Maybe should've paid anther £7.50 for a spare impellor but the they don't call e SUPERcoley for nothing. lol

    Will let you know what happens as I may sample it above the diffusor first.

    Andy
     
  8. Garuf

    Garuf Member

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    Andy, I used to model so I've already got these, invest in a pin vice and a set of hss micro drills I've got a set down to .2 of a millimetre. Ideal for modding a impeller.
     
  9. GreenNeedle

    GreenNeedle Member

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    Well I was going to use the fine diamond tip of an etching pen that I happen to have around the house which should be similar to your size.

    Andy
     
  10. Garuf

    Garuf Member

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    After reading It seems bigger is better, maybe 1mm is fine after all.
     
  11. GreenNeedle

    GreenNeedle Member

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    Well I've done it so I though I would put it in pictures:

    Maxijet MP400 Powerhead (inc loads of bits not needed
    maxijet.jpg

    My etching pen
    etch.jpg

    The impellor after making the holes with the etching pen
    impellor.jpg

    The CO2 fed through the guard
    inlet.jpg

    Makes a change for something to hide in the tigers. lol Normally the tiger hiding in something isn't it?
    tigerhiding.jpg

    So far I think I don't need a bubble counter anymore. lol. Every time I see a bubble pass through the bubble counter I hear a phizz from the powerhead to the exact millisecond.

    When I first got the whole thing working I had to turn the CO2 right down as without the backward pressure the disc diffusor gave the bubble count suddenly went from 1 bps to 3 and I don't want to risk that.

    As for the mist. Its not as fine as the couple of hours after bleaching a diffusor but smaller than the disc eventually gives after a day or 2. Also the powerhead pushes them further around the tank.

    When it spits out the bubbles you don't think there are many but when you actually look at the rest of the tank you can see loads of bubbles so some must be coming out too fast to see.

    Will keep an eye on my drop checker for the next few days (I run 24/7) just to be on the safe side, and also to make sure it keeps me green like the Rhinox did.

    Andy
     
  12. Garuf

    Garuf Member

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    excellent write up, how loud is the noise? enough to be obnoxious?
     
  13. GreenNeedle

    GreenNeedle Member

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    its like a click (quiet clock ticking) every second. With the telly on can't hear it.

    I'm gonna add some more holes when I get time though.

    Andy
     
  14. Themuleous

    Themuleous Member

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    Really interesting idea, I like how you've managed to fix the co2 tubing to the bottom of it. Could even turn in upside down in the tank so you haven't got to bent the co2 tubing too much.

    Sam
     
  15. JamesC

    JamesC Member

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    A little tip for you. What you need to do is get the holes as close as possible together. What makes the CO2 bubbles really small is the fine bit of plastic impellor between the holes which acts like a blade cutting the bubbles.

    James
     
  16. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

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    Do you find the maxi jet produces too much flow, or is the 400lph rating a good combo for that size of tank?
     
  17. GreenNeedle

    GreenNeedle Member

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    Sam - I was going to put it upside down but in the end it hid OK the way it is and the hose was already this length from the Rhinox. If it don't work it means I can very quickly swap back as the hose needs no adjustment.


    James - I saw about the 'blades' part after I'd drilled so will try again and drill more this wekend to get some 'blades'

    Dev - From what I have been reading I gather that as you introduce these holes and the interference increases that the flow reduces too. At the moment in my 125Ltr it is OK but I would prefer a little less.

    Andy
     
  18. Garuf

    Garuf Member

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  19. GreenNeedle

    GreenNeedle Member

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    Forgot to take pictures but I have now redrilled the holes in the impellor with a 1.5mm bit.

    The bubbles are smaller and it seems a little quieter as well. The flow is reduced but not by much.

    The biggest bonuses I can see so far are:

    1 - Additional circulation in the tank
    2 - Uses less CO2 (I am at about 30bpm from 60bpm with the disc to achieve green)
    3 - The 'click/fizz' when the bubbles are spat out of the spout are quieter than the 'chirp' of the disc.
    4 - No need to clean the damn thing each week.

    The one disadvantage with this version of the method is that the powerhead is a lot more unsightly than the glass/ceramic. I have managed to hide it behind my Zenkeri though.

    I wouldn't be able to do an inline version as my outlet pipe is 1.5m long and already goes from filter to UV to heater to Lily Pipe and there isn't the room to insert it anywhere there.

    And
     
  20. Garuf

    Garuf Member

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    I'm lead to believe you junction it off rather than have it in line in the conventional sense.

    I think you would plumb it in much like you would a light bulb in a parallel circuit.
     

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