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Anyone dose throught their top-up?

N

nphsmith

Member
Joined
3 Dec 2012
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I will be using an RO-based auto topup. While I won't be able to have terribly exact basis for how much is topped up in a week, I'm hoping that it will be good enough for me to dose EI. My thinking is that
a) Less work for me
b) No missing of doses
c) Slow steady input of elements rather than huge amount once/day/week.

But...I don't see many people doing this. Am I missing something obvious?
 
Apparently, something happens to the Iron in the Micro mix when in the same solution as the macro.
I think it makes iron unavailable to the plants for uptake. So, going on that, your plants will have an Iron shortage.

I'm no professor, but one of the 'Pros' will be able to tell you exactly whats-what.
 
I would have thought that the nutrients would degrade in the top up tank, unless you add a lot of preservative (not sure if that much would be considered safe) or were topping the RO tank up with nutrients daily (defeats the purpose).

Peristaltic pumps are a great option though, as mentioned above :).
 
Nathaniel Whiteside said:
Apparently, something happens to the Iron in the Micro mix when in the same solution as the macro.
I think it makes iron unavailable to the plants for uptake. So, going on that, your plants will have an Iron shortage.

I'm no professor, but one of the 'Pros' will be able to tell you exactly whats-what.
Click to expand...

That sort of makes sense - hence why there are 2 solutions, presumably.


Nathaniel Whiteside said:
But you could put your macro mix into the Top up water and dose the micros via peristaltic or manually by powder or solution..?
Click to expand...

Macro is daily and micro weekly? That would be fine.

three-fingers said:
I would have thought that the nutrients would degrade in the top up tank, unless you add a lot of preservative (not sure if that much would be considered safe) or were topping the RO tank up with nutrients daily (defeats the purpose).

Peristaltic pumps are a great option though, as mentioned above :).
Click to expand...



But...if they don't degrade in a 'peristaltic container', why would they degrade in an 'autotopup container'?
 
I think i read about George farmer dosing macros and micros together daily, in one of his journals, without any problem. I think the iron reacting is more of a problem when stored in the same bottle.
Do the waterchange and topup daily and ad nutrients daily with dosing pumps.

And just to throw a spanner in the works i use tnc complete which contains macro and micro so hows that work then?
I have read about micro mixes going off in storage bottles and people adding preservatives
 
Big clown said:
I think i read about George farmer dosing macros and micros together daily, in one of his journals, without any problem. I think the iron reacting is more of a problem when stored in the same bottle.
Do the waterchange and topup daily and ad nutrients daily with dosing pumps.

And just to throw a spanner in the works i use tnc complete which contains macro and micro so hows that work then?
I have read about micro mixes going off in storage bottles and people adding preservatives
Click to expand...

Yeah you can get preservatives to preserve in bottle. Don't know how they would work out watered down in a top up container.
 
But...if they don't degrade in a 'peristaltic container', why would they degrade in an 'autotopup container'?
Click to expand...
Because the 'peristaltic container' would be much smaller (peristaltic pumps are specifically used to dose small volumes at a time) and contain a far more concentrated solution of the salts, killing any microbes that may change the properties of the nutrients. The biofilm on the inside of the RO container for starters.

Even in concentrated homemade fertilisers a preservative is often used to prevent this, potassium sorbate. Not really a good option for an RO tank IMO.
 
three-fingers said:
Because the 'peristaltic container' would be much smaller (peristaltic pumps are specifically used to dose small volumes at a time) and contain a far more concentrated solution of the salts, killing any microbes that may change the properties of the nutrients. The biofilm on the inside of the RO container for starters.

Even in concentrated homemade fertilisers a preservative is often used to prevent this, potassium sorbate. Not really a good option for an RO tank IMO.
Click to expand...


Thanks, that makes sense.
 
Slightly aside here so apologies
Nathaniel Whiteside said:
absorbic acid
Click to expand...
or Vitamin C to most is used as a pH regulator, Antioxidant, Flavour enhancer ect... but even by APFUKs site and quiet a bit of literature its highly unstable in the presence of metal ions... and where does it go? with a load of metal ions! I've also seen great instability when just added to water and stored at medium temperatures, but please correct me if i'm wrong i'm just really not sure why it is recommended :S
 
Vitamin C is an acid. The chelates in the micro mix work best at low pH. In the bottle, therefore it keeps the Iron from reacting with the PO4. That's all.

Potassium Sorbate is a mold inhibitor. It works fine and there is no need to worry about these additives.

Cheers,
 
ceg4048 said:
Vitamin C is an acid. The chelates in the micro mix work best at low pH. In the bottle, therefore it keeps the Iron from reacting with the PO4. That's all.

Potassium Sorbate is a mold inhibitor. It works fine and there is no need to worry about these additives.

Cheers,
Click to expand...


So Clive,
Would you advise for or against having a pre dosed with both macro and micro RO top up system?

Would the mix be okay? Or would macro only be better with a manual dosing of micro?
 
Well it's really up to the individual. If you use JamesC's all-in-one mix then it's fine to dose it concurrently with top up, but if it's actually placed in the top up reservoir and if the volume of the top up reservoir is too large without accounting for the necessary amounts of Vitamin C for that volume, then the pH may not be low enough and the Fe/PO4 issue might be a problem. It will be easy to tell because if it occurs then there will be an Iron Phosphate or some other metal-phosphate precipitate forming at the bottom of the reservoir.

Cheers,
 
ceg4048 said:
Well it's really up to the individual. If you use JamesC's all-in-one mix then it's fine to dose it concurrently with top up, but if it's actually placed in the top up reservoir and if the volume of the top up reservoir is too large without accounting for the necessary amounts of Vitamin C for that volume, then the pH may not be low enough and the Fe/PO4 issue might be a problem. It will be easy to tell because if it occurs then there will be an Iron Phosphate or some other metal-phosphate precipitate forming at the bottom of the reservoir.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

Great. I would imagine that will help the OP no end. As well as re-highlight which chemicals it was, I forgot :lol:


Thanks very much,
N
 
ceg4048 said:
Well it's really up to the individual. If you use JamesC's all-in-one mix then it's fine to dose it concurrently with top up, but if it's actually placed in the top up reservoir and if the volume of the top up reservoir is too large without accounting for the necessary amounts of Vitamin C for that volume, then the pH may not be low enough and the Fe/PO4 issue might be a problem. It will be easy to tell because if it occurs then there will be an Iron Phosphate or some other metal-phosphate precipitate forming at the bottom of the reservoir.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

Rather than worry, I think I'm inclined to put NPK in the RO, and CSM+B manually dose twice a week. That's safe, right? Then, depending how lazy I am, I can set up a peri pump to do the CSM+B at a later point.
 
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