nijat11
Member
It is custom made, 130*40*45
-
You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up
Apistogramas died
- Thread starter nijat11
- Start date
Bradders
Member
OK, so I have done some math! (I am so sad!)
WARNING: This is all VERY rough and should be used as a VERY rough guide. It is also subjective for many, so I would use this as data to use or discard.
Just looking at your fish only, you have 78 fish, which equals 169.5 Fish Inches in the aquarium. When you look at the metabolic weight of your fish, you need 540.53 square feet of effective surface area media to ensure very clean and clear water. NOTE: you don't need this amount for ammonia or nitrite only - this is for very clear water and maintaining bacteria levels in the water column effectively - the more the filtration surface area, the cleaner the water. (Of course, this also means the filtration has to be fully mature to ensure that bacteria has developed).
Looking at your sump (and making some very large assumptions!), you have a theoretical max volume of 3,570 cubic inches per chamber—a total of 10,710 cubic inches for all three chambers. The school of thought here is that you need 100 Square Feet of effective media surface area to provide very clean water per 454 grams of fish. Every media has a different effective surface area. i.e. you only need 660 Cubic inches (0.38 cubic feet) of 20PPI foam to get 100 Square Feet of Effective Surface Area. Conversely, you need 4,320 cubic inches (2.5 cubic feet) of Biohome to get 100 Square Feet of Effective Surface Area. Depending on your media loading (and doing some math), you are just below or above the requirement of 540.53 feet/2. NOTE: One sump chamber, which is 100% full of Biohome, does not provide 100 Square Feet of Effective Surface Area. One sump chamber 100% full of foam provides ~540 feet/2 of Effective Surface Area.
As a result of the above, if your aquarium filter media is 60% of the sump's capacity, you might fall shy of matching the right surface area to cope with the fish load. This could mean that your water could contain more bacteria in the water column, which could stress the fish's immune system more.
Since foam and plastic media like K1 and HEL-X 13 have a more effective surface area (even more if you use a moving bed filter), you could increase the capacity by using them in your sump. An example of the difference is seen below, showing that a 60% filter media loading gives you 973.61 Feet/2 of effective surface area - well above your current fish loading requirement. At 100% loading, then you are looking at a whopping 1622 feet/2. You could equate the 100% loading to supporting three times the amount of fish (in bio-load terms, not ethical terms) than you do now!
As I said at the start, not everyone buys into this approach, and it therefore needs to be used as part of your data. However, I used this approach in my aquarium when I found that my fish bio-load was at 115% of the filter capacity, and my water was clear but not really, really clear. I added another filter, and the water is clear, and my fish deaths have slowed significantly. So I have some faith that it helped me go in the right direction to a more stable aquarium.
Hope this helps a little! At least I had some Christmas fun doing some math and equations!
WARNING: This is all VERY rough and should be used as a VERY rough guide. It is also subjective for many, so I would use this as data to use or discard.
Just looking at your fish only, you have 78 fish, which equals 169.5 Fish Inches in the aquarium. When you look at the metabolic weight of your fish, you need 540.53 square feet of effective surface area media to ensure very clean and clear water. NOTE: you don't need this amount for ammonia or nitrite only - this is for very clear water and maintaining bacteria levels in the water column effectively - the more the filtration surface area, the cleaner the water. (Of course, this also means the filtration has to be fully mature to ensure that bacteria has developed).
Looking at your sump (and making some very large assumptions!), you have a theoretical max volume of 3,570 cubic inches per chamber—a total of 10,710 cubic inches for all three chambers. The school of thought here is that you need 100 Square Feet of effective media surface area to provide very clean water per 454 grams of fish. Every media has a different effective surface area. i.e. you only need 660 Cubic inches (0.38 cubic feet) of 20PPI foam to get 100 Square Feet of Effective Surface Area. Conversely, you need 4,320 cubic inches (2.5 cubic feet) of Biohome to get 100 Square Feet of Effective Surface Area. Depending on your media loading (and doing some math), you are just below or above the requirement of 540.53 feet/2. NOTE: One sump chamber, which is 100% full of Biohome, does not provide 100 Square Feet of Effective Surface Area. One sump chamber 100% full of foam provides ~540 feet/2 of Effective Surface Area.
As a result of the above, if your aquarium filter media is 60% of the sump's capacity, you might fall shy of matching the right surface area to cope with the fish load. This could mean that your water could contain more bacteria in the water column, which could stress the fish's immune system more.
Since foam and plastic media like K1 and HEL-X 13 have a more effective surface area (even more if you use a moving bed filter), you could increase the capacity by using them in your sump. An example of the difference is seen below, showing that a 60% filter media loading gives you 973.61 Feet/2 of effective surface area - well above your current fish loading requirement. At 100% loading, then you are looking at a whopping 1622 feet/2. You could equate the 100% loading to supporting three times the amount of fish (in bio-load terms, not ethical terms) than you do now!
As I said at the start, not everyone buys into this approach, and it therefore needs to be used as part of your data. However, I used this approach in my aquarium when I found that my fish bio-load was at 115% of the filter capacity, and my water was clear but not really, really clear. I added another filter, and the water is clear, and my fish deaths have slowed significantly. So I have some faith that it helped me go in the right direction to a more stable aquarium.
Hope this helps a little! At least I had some Christmas fun doing some math and equations!
Hi all,
I know views on this vary, but personally I don't want my <"filter to act as a syphon so I'd look on any "improved" mechanical filtration"> (in the filter body) as a negative rather than a positive. Sumps are slightly different, because access is easier, and you can use your sump as a prefilter.
I don't think there is anything wrong with what you have written (and I'd certainly agree about the filter media), but unless <"you supply sufficient dissolved oxygen">, so that its level always exceeds the <"Biochemical Oxygen Demand"> (BOD) of the system, it just <"isn't that relevant">.
You may be interested in the <"Aquarium Science"> web pages <"7. Aquarium Filter Media"> where he has used a similar approach and keeps fish at <"insane stocking levels">.
Because @nijat11 has a sump and planted tank I'm going to say they are probably all right.
cheers Darrel
I'm pleased things have improved and <"stability is a good thing">, but I'd guess the second filter isn't actually that important in terms of improved nitrification, although it will have added flow and <"I'd guess that is more important">.
I know views on this vary, but personally I don't want my <"filter to act as a syphon so I'd look on any "improved" mechanical filtration"> (in the filter body) as a negative rather than a positive. Sumps are slightly different, because access is easier, and you can use your sump as a prefilter.
I don't think there is anything wrong with what you have written (and I'd certainly agree about the filter media), but unless <"you supply sufficient dissolved oxygen">, so that its level always exceeds the <"Biochemical Oxygen Demand"> (BOD) of the system, it just <"isn't that relevant">.
You may be interested in the <"Aquarium Science"> web pages <"7. Aquarium Filter Media"> where he has used a similar approach and keeps fish at <"insane stocking levels">.
Because @nijat11 has a sump and planted tank I'm going to say they are probably all right.
I've got an analogy for you <"Flow rate.">.
I think the problem is that most discussions, about media type and amount, are all about the "optimal shape for glass and spoon".
cheers Darrel
Last edited:
Bradders
Member
I 100% agree with that. There was more than enough filtration for nitrification. In fact, one filter was probably overkill using my Oase 250 on a 100L tank!
I think I understand what you are saying, and therefore I think I agree. My Oase has a pre-filter which is basically the only thing that I clean. Yes, that pre-filter is in the actual unit, but it protects the HEL-X and Foams in the main chamber from being touched for months or, sometimes, years. i.e. the less that is disturbed, the better.
Yes, the filter media has been a bit of a learning curve for me. I was very surprised at the difference between the different types! In terms of your point about DO supply, can you elaborate so I can understand/learn? I think you are saying that you need enough dissolved oxygen to pass over the filter media so that it can 'feed' the bacteria. Is that what you are saying?
Hi all,
I think of it like "Emergency First Aid", there is no point in putting a plaster on the cut on the casualties leg, if they have a huge wound on their torso that you are ignoring for the moment. Dissolved oxygen is always the parameter you need to triage first.
I've had the <"good fortune"> to visit <"a lot of wastewater works"> and they aren't too bothered about the TAN content of the effluent, they are <"just interested in oxygen">. Have a look at <"Will fishless cycling harm plants?">.
This is the <"activated sludge process">.
cheers Darrel
Exactly that, it is just a matter of priorities.
I think of it like "Emergency First Aid", there is no point in putting a plaster on the cut on the casualties leg, if they have a huge wound on their torso that you are ignoring for the moment. Dissolved oxygen is always the parameter you need to triage first.
I've had the <"good fortune"> to visit <"a lot of wastewater works"> and they aren't too bothered about the TAN content of the effluent, they are <"just interested in oxygen">. Have a look at <"Will fishless cycling harm plants?">.
This is the <"activated sludge process">.
cheers Darrel
_Maq_
Member
I've read though this thread, and to the topic - Apistogrammas died - I'd stick to general rule: Apistogrammas are sensitive fish. It's no shame to be less than successful with them. To succeed, you must not underestimate anything. At best, keep them alone in pairs, soft acidic water, well-oxygenated, with minimum organic pollution. And always, always right after acquiring them do treat them with recommended deworming medicaments.
I agree with @_Maq_ theres a high chance they could just be from a poor source. If all your other fish are ok I’d try not to worry too much about it. No one likes losing fish but unfortunately it does happen sometimes.
Cheers
I’d say this is a bit bizarre. It definitely wouldn’t be under feeding, and I don’t think it will be a higher amount of bacteria in water column due to insufficient filtration (due to a lot of plant growth). I don’t think it’s due directly to flow either as there would be areas of the tank that they could avoid it. I don’t think it’s internal parasites as for all the fish to die so suddenly with eachother seems odd, internal parasites often have other signs.
I have thoughts:
New flow caused fish to congregate which caused stress and or fighting. Resulting in death.
The new pump was not clean, so it introduced something weaker fish were unable to survive.
Either way, seems like you’re over this now. I know “flow is king” but for fish, it rarely is.
I have thoughts:
New flow caused fish to congregate which caused stress and or fighting. Resulting in death.
The new pump was not clean, so it introduced something weaker fish were unable to survive.
Either way, seems like you’re over this now. I know “flow is king” but for fish, it rarely is.
Bradders
Member
I have this struggle as well. I have pretty good flow through my aquarium, but actually, that is to the detriment of fish comfort. i.e. its probably okay for plants, but it is a bit strong for the fish.
Never really seem to be able to settle on an equilibrium where all my plants are gently swaying in the flow without a guppy getting pushed across when entering that flow!
nijat11
Member
So after all of this discussion.
I`m going to try pair of german blue rams from another store.
Lets see how it will go.
I`m going to try pair of german blue rams from another store.
Lets see how it will go.
nijat11
Member
So, I got pair of GBR three weeks ago from another shop. I raised temp to 25, and so far seems they are doing fine.
I will post you on progress.
I will post you on progress.
nijat11
Member
Update. It is been more than months since I have purchased 2 german blue rams and so far they are doing great, very active, eating good and good coloration.
So my assumption by the time when I lost my apistos I had some kind bacterial infection, I cant think anything else what could cause their death.
So my assumption by the time when I lost my apistos I had some kind bacterial infection, I cant think anything else what could cause their death.
nijat11
Member
Off topic, wild apistos capturing
simon_the_plant_nerd
Member
I had terrible luck with my rams. Have since acquired two gold rams who are doing really well touch wood.
nijat11
Member
Again, one of apistos died, so probanly the other one will die within couple of weeks
