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Apistogramma Borelli Health and Breeding

Heelllooo

Member
Joined
6 Jul 2023
Messages
84
Location
Belgium
Following the loss of my female betta, I acquired 2 weeks ago a couple of Apistogramma Borelli Opal for my 60l tank.

I'm still a pretty inexperienced fish keeper and I have a ton of question.

First of, for info, the tank is heavily planted ; pH 7,5 at rest but injecting with dyi yeast CO2 so pH around neutral during the photoperiod ; kH 3 ; gH 5 ; 23° C ; The tank has been running for a year now, the only other inhabitant are 5 big amanos and Ramshorn snails and there is a half coconut hell in the tank.

Right now I'm only feeding dry and frozen food plus they are constantly hunting baby snail and small organism ( cyclops and really small flatworms from what I've seen ). I want to start culture Grindal worms and I'm gonna try to hatch brine shrimp for the first time, do you have other suggestion of easy livefood culture ? I've tried daphnia without success.

Now first thing the male's body has started to change from maybe 4-5 days ago. For the first week, he did take a lot of weight but now his belly seems less round. Moreover the top of his head as started to become a lot more angular. You can see it in the pictures at the end of the post. I'm maybe paranoiac from the death of my betta but I afraid it could be the first symptoms of a disease, or is it just normal growth ? Sometimes ( rarely ) he shake his dorsal fins really fast which is weird. Except for that they are feeding well and acting very active.

On the other hand if everything is fine, I'm planning on breeding them. I don't want to do it optimally but if I could have some offsprings survive, I would be really happy.
This is were I have a lot of question :

They are somewhat still small, he is maybe 4cm maximum and she is something like 3cm, are they already in age to reproduce ?

Even if she is a lot smaller than him, she is bullying him to which he rarely respond and he even seems to grow a bit afraid of her. Is it possible that she never accept him ?
The bullying is not constant. Sometimes they seem ok together but as soon as there is food in the tank or he tries to display to her ( which he does a lot), she submit him by nipping and tail whipping him.
On the other hand she is really yellow and I've seen her lay on her side to show him her belly one time.

If I get some breeding going, do you think some of the fry could survive on the microfauna of the tank ? I could maybe try culturing infusoria which seem easy.
If I could not go through the hassle of hatching brine shrimp constantly, it would be nice.
What do you think of fry powder ? Is there some that you can recommend ?

And lastly, should I prepare myself to remove the male from the tank when the fry are born ? Or is it possible to let him live his life in the tank ?

Thanks in advance for your responses and as always sorry for the quality of the pictures.

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They will not accept anything but live food. Grindal is perfect. Bad experience with Tubifex as these fish are prone to infections.
They breed all the time. Female tends to the fry while the male controls the outer perimeter. Young & inexperienced females often fail to defend the eggs even against ramshorns. These fish are best kept in pairs, without any company.
Your water is not very suitable for these fish. They require acidic water with low conductivity.
 
They will not accept anything but live food.
Are you talking about the fry ? Because the adult are accepting dry and frozen food without issue right now.

These fish are best kept in pairs, without any company.
I don't plan on adding any other fish in the tank right now.

Your water is not very suitable for these fish. They require acidic water with low conductivity
From what I've read in various sources online, Borelli live naturally in slightly acidic to neutral water, for exemple in the parana river. They are not a blackwater fish. And I've read about a lot of people keeping and breeding them in neutral to slightly basic water. This is why I did in fact choose them over other Apisto.
 
the adult are accepting dry and frozen food without issue right now.
Adaptation? I had these Apistos (natural form) a few years ago, so maybe my observation is already obsolete.
 
Adaptation? I had these Apistos (natural form) a few years ago, so maybe my observation is already obsolete.
I'm pretty sure mine are tank-breed. The female was picky for the first week when there was a lot of small snails but now she eats everything.
They particularly get crazy for frozen daphnia, I will try feeding them some live one.
 
Hi all,
On the other hand she is really yellow and I've seen her lay on her side to show him her belly one time.
She is ready to spawn. Apistogramma females initiate spawning.
Now first thing the male's body has started to change from maybe 4-5 days ago. For the first week, he did take a lot of weight but now his belly seems less round. Moreover the top of his head as started to become a lot more angular. You can see it in the pictures at the end of the post.
I'm very wary of <"Camallanus infection in Apistogramma">. Looking at the males vent in the first photo I would treat the tank with some <"Levamisole HCL">.
And I've read about a lot of people keeping and breeding them in neutral to slightly basic water.
They definitely do better in harder water compared to the Amazonian Apistogramma sp.
And lastly, should I prepare myself to remove the male from the tank when the fry are born ? Or is it possible to let him live his life in the tank ?
I <"kept them for a while"> (in rain water) and they were fine with the male left in the tank.
..... The only long term successes I've ever had were <"A. cacatuoides, A. trifasciata and A. borellii">, I don't mention the borellii in that thread, but I had the same problems with them, nobody wanted the fry locally.........
Grindal is perfect.
They love Grindal worms, you also need <"Banana / Walter or Micro worms"> for the fry.

I might try <"Fluval Bugbites"> as a dry food and when I go back to keeping Apistogramma (and I will) I'm going to feed mine <"less worms and more crustaceans">.

cheers Darrel
 
I'm very wary of <"Camallanus infection in Apistogramma">. Looking at the males vent in the first photo I would treat the tank with some <"Levamisole HCL">.
He was just in the process of doing his thing when I took the picture 😂.
I will monitor him closely and treat if he show anything.
I was more afraid because of his angular head as I read it could be fish TB.

She is ready to spawn. Apistogramma females initiate spawning.
So I should just be patient.

I might try <"Fluval Bugbites"> as a dry food
I'm feeding some to them maybe two times a week, the small cichlid formula. They seems to love the taste but have a hard time eating it, it's a bit to big and to hard for them to crush it, and the pellet take a lot of time to soften in water.
 
Hi all,
He was just in the process of doing his thing when I took the picture...I was more afraid because of his angular head as I read it could be fish TB.
Not the faeces, is the vent slightly bulging normally? If the fish gets thinner (and the head more angular etc) and the vent is slightly enlarged? Very likely to be Camallanus. By the time you get to visible worms it is all over for the fish. I've not had fish with TB, but Camallanus is really common in Apistogramma.
I'm feeding some to them maybe two times a week, the small cichlid formula. They seems to love the taste but have a hard time eating it, it's a bit to big and to hard for them to crush it, and the pellet take a lot of time to soften in water.
I smash mine up in a pestle and mortar before adding them to the tank.

cheers Darrel
 
Not the faeces, is the vent slightly bulging normally? If the fish gets thinner (and the head more angular etc) and the vent is slightly enlarged? Very likely to be Camallanus. By the time you get to visible worms it is all over for the fish. I've not had fish with TB, but Camallanus is really common in Apistogramma.

The vent is not bulging but today I find him even a bit more thinner but I'm not sure. I just bought ESHA ndX which is levamisole HCL, and I think I'm gonna treat the tank just to be sure. I should receive it in a few days.
It's suppose to be safe for invert, can you confirm that ? And for the plant ?

I've been feeding frozen Chironomus larvae a few times, would you recommend it ?

Thanks a lot for your help !
 
I've just seen him rubbing himself against some leaf and flashing.
Surely this is some symptom of a parasitic infection ?
 
Hi all,
I've just seen him rubbing himself against some leaf and flashing. Surely this is some symptom of a parasitic infection ?
Sounds likely. I don't have much experience of this, but hopefully somebody else will be able to suggest a treatment.
I've been feeding frozen Chironomus larvae a few times, would you recommend it ?
It is a bit of a contentious issue. Apistogramma naturally eat Chironomid larvae, and I've fed mine plenty of "ranched" live ones, but I won't feed them <"commercially collected Blood-worm"> live or dead.

cheers Darrel
 
It won't help your main problem, but one thing I sometimes do is ground up hard foods of various kinds in a pestle and then soak them with chopped fresh garlic, which fish like and which may help, a little, with the health issues. Likewise almond leaves etc, as I'm sure you already know. I hope the more medical treatments help.
 
Ok so I had issue with the delivery of the anti-worm and I'm still waiting for it..

But good news, I wasn't home for a week and my wife did take care of the fish. I instructed her to feed a bit more than I was doing and they've grown and fatten a lot !

Maybe I panicked for nothing, I'm still pondering if I should treat anyway.

The female seems really full of eggs and she's gotten into the cave a few times now. She also seems less agressive with the male except for feeding time.
 
Maybe I panicked for nothing, I'm still pondering if I should treat anyway.
If it was me I would. It’s not going to harm the fish and as @dw1305 mentioned camallanus worms are a very common problem with tank bred apistogramma, especially from the far east.

I always treat new fish for worms, you’ll be surprised what can come out of a ‘healthy’ looking fish.

Cheers
 
I've treated the tank once 2 weeks ago and nothing came out of them.

And the good news is : they've spawned yesterday ! The eggs seems fertilized !
The issue is that she spawned on the bottom of the heater..
I'm hoping they're not gonna be fried eggs :p. It's not on the part that's heating and the heater is only running a bit a night right now.

The other issue is that I'm not gonna hatch brine shrimp for now. Do you think I could manage some survival rate using other method of feeding.
I'm gonna try culturing infusoria and can get decapsulated BS eggs for next week.
I also have a lot of java moss in the tank.
What do you think of the product "Hobby protogen" ?
Does crushing some pellet food like Bug Bites could help ?
 
What do you think of the product "Hobby protogen" ?
I find it excellent, I always keep some in case of unplanned spawnings. The only drawback is the price, which is why I don't use it for large, planned spawnings. You can also use it to start a culture.
Microworms are good too.
Java Moss is good, probably full of tiny creatures.
If you try crushed dry food, start with a very small amount and watch to see if the babies recognise it as food. Sometimes they will only eat moving things.
hth
 
Bad news there is no more eggs as of today and I think she ate it. She is doing her life around the tank and I haven't seen wigglers..

But that was to be expected, it's her first time.

What worries me more :
Since yesterday the male is pale, hiding on the other side of the tank , not moving much, not eating and breathing strongly with the mouth always open..

I haven't seen them interact since yesterday but the day before she was pretty aggressive to him..

I've upped the oxygenation of the tank and try to feed them in separate place for now..
 
More bad news..

Yesterday night, I've seen them interact and she was really aggressive to him.
This morning he was moving all around the tank slowly and aimlessly, breathing like crazy.
This afternoon coming back from work he was dead..

I've read that Apisto can be really hard to one another but could it really be just her killing him by stressing him so much ?
They spawned Friday and before Sunday he seemed really healthy. He had taken weight, was really active etc.
His body didn't show any sign of disease or anything weird.

She seems healthy too, eating a lot and all. And every inhabitant of the tank too.

Maybe he was just weak from the start, which would explain why she was so dominant to him.

Now I plan on finding her a new mate, my LFS pretty much always stock them.
Should I wait for whatever reason ?
Also should I choose the more dominant one at my LFS since she seems to be a pretty aggressive female ?

I think I need to learn Apisto psychology more.
 
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