BBA on high tech tank!

[Bra1799]

So i have encountered a problem with bba and staghorn algae. I’ve never encountered these before so please can i have some advice on how to remove. Here are the details.

All water paremeters are fine as i have checked this evening

lights running from 3pm-11pm

co2 running from 1pm-10pm

consistent 1ph drop and drop checker is lime green

dosing 5ml tropica nutrition daily

currently on water changes every 2 days

diatoms have set in but they will go.

How do i get rid of this from the plants and what do i treat it with? do i remove some and add a different species? the algae is on mostly the slow growers and hardscape.

 

[erwin123]

diatoms have set in but they will go.

How do i get rid of this from the plants and what do i treat it with? do i remove some and add a different species? the algae is on mostly the slow growers and hardscape.

Melting & Algae? 3 mistakes in keeping Bucephalandra

Above: Bucephalandra 'Brownie Ghost 2011' has a particularly strong purplish tone. Buceps belong to a genus of flowering rheophyte that grows with a creeping rhizome. They are endemic to Indonesia and come in varied and unusual forms. Above: Buceps are most often grown on hardscape, even though...

www.2hraquarist.com

The no.1 cause of BBA on Buces appears to be unstable tank parameters. This may be due to CO2 instability, or it may be due to the fact that this is a new tank (based on the reference to diatoms which occur only in new tanks) so tank parameters are constantly changing. Other issues with Buces relate to high organic waste and insufficient flow (or paradoxically too much flow).

As to how to treat it, there are various algae treatments commercially available, but I am partial to a hydrogen peroxide dip which was discussed in another thread. However, I believe it was Hanuman that cautioned that you should only dip the leaves and NOT the rhizome into the H2O2. I would say its inevitable that some H2O2 touches the rhizome, just make sure its not fully immersed in the H2O2. If its an expensive Buce like Brownie Ghost 2011, then maybe use an artists' brush to apply the H2O2 leaf by leaf

As for faster growing plants with algae, normally one just removes the algae-infested leaves since new leaves will grow back quickly.

 

[Hanuman]

As to how to treat it, there are various algae treatments commercially available, but I am partial to a hydrogen peroxide dip which was discussed in another thread. However, I believe it was Hanuman that cautioned that you should only dip the leaves and NOT the rhizome into the H2O2. I would say its inevitable that some H2O2 touches the rhizome, just make sure its not fully immersed in the H2O2. If its an expensive Buce like Brownie Ghost 2011, then maybe use an artists' brush to apply the H2O2 leaf by leaf

Yes you have to be extra careful with the roots as they are much more sensitive than the leaves and will get 'burnt' pretty fast with H2O2. The way I do it is I put some hydrogen peroxide in a small spray bottle and then spray the leaves. In fact I am not using H2O2 anymore on plants because it's quite aggressive and you need to time things right. In my experience, 1 to 2 minutes max. Some plants will be more resilient than others to H2O2 though. The way I treat large amounts of bucephalandra now is I use some old anti algae product I bought years ago which is probably glutaraldehyde based. I dip the whole plants in a mix of water + product and leave it for 5-10 minutes then rinse. It's less aggressive than H2O2 but does the job nicely. I have also been using APT Fix for the past 3 months and I have to say I am pleasantly surprise with the product. I only use it intank. This said it's also quite potent so if left too long on plant it will definitely burn it.

 

[_Maq_]

All water paremeters are fine

I LOVE this report. I've heard/read it soooo many times! Usually when someone's in trouble...
Will someone tell me what water parameters are fine??

 

[PARAGUAY]

Assuming @Bra1799 means water parameters of Ammonia,Nitrite at0 and acceptable level of Nitrate then l agree with @erwin123 it's likely unstable CO2, ,hair algae,BBA is common if flow is not right,So after removal check on flow. Lighting , and when you are able you could add some juvenile Siamese Algae Eaters, which will have a munch on BBA new growth.

 

[Bra1799]

Will someone tell me what water parameters are fine??

I do apologise, I have retested this morning.

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 20ppm

 

[G H Nelson]

Please read the guidelines for Algae help!

Dear Member Please give as many details as possible regarding your aquarium set-up, when requiring advice/help! The above will be posted at the start of each help request. Why do we ask these questions? It will stop the member posting multiple times, plus adviser's don't need to scroll through...

www.ukaps.org

 

[Andy Pierce]

I'm not sure I believe the BBA from unstable water parameters thing... I had a major BBA disaster in the Shrimphaus that eventually led to a total tear-down and rebuild (Creating Shrimphaus 2.0 - Fireplace aquarium). Spot-treatment with glutaraldehyde is effective and relatively low risk. I dropped the lighting intensity by 50% and have been doing daily water-column glutaraldehyde treatment and no sign of BBA return over the last 5 months. I think elevated organic pollution is the main cause of BBA based on purely anecdotal experience.

 

[Epiphyte]

I've been plagued by BBA for a long time and have done quite a bit of experimentation regarding it. It's not a double blind peer review study but I feel confident in what I've found for building tanks going forward.

My tanks have been practically algae free since the growth really started off, but BBA is the one I cannot get rid of it no matter what I try. I've come to the conclusion it's something you'll have to live with in a high tech aquascape, but you can at least minimise it.

General school of thought is that BBA is effected by fluctuating CO2 levels, but in my opinion is that it is only prevalent in a healthy tank in areas of high flow with highly concentrated co2 bubbles. This, in my experience, means that BBA grows like a weed in the flow of the filter outlet. I have only ever used inline CO2 but am looking to experiment with other forms such as a CO2 stone.

My experimentation first came from when I saw a significant dropoff in BBA over about 2 weeks. What actually happened was I hadn't noticed my CO2 bottle was running out and because I control my CO2 via a pH controller I didn't notice a reduction in bubbles. As soon as I replaced the bottle and CO2 returned the BBA returned also.

This got me thinking that it is meerly the presence of CO2 that causes BBA rather than a lack of or fluctuation of CO2 as commonly thought.

My setup used to have the traditional filter outlet (using a Neo Flow outlet) going directly parallel to the front glass, around 2-3" from the front. In this stream everything was getting covered in BBA. Hardscape, MC carpet, buce, slow growers, the lot. By angling the outlet of the filter to go diagonally from the front left to the back right of the aquarium I saw a significant reduction in BBA. It did start to accumulate on some hardscape that was in the direct flow but by the time the CO2 saturated water was hitting the carpet it must have been diffuse enough to no longer cause BBA. Within a few weeks BBA was relegated to only a few areas and generally was paler in colour and far less bushy. Seeing this just backed up my thoughts that high flow of CO2 rich water is the cause.

My next experiments will be when I set my tank up again for a rescape. My plan is to really diffuse the outlet of the filter to ensure that the filter outlet is not providing a super-saturated stream of water with CO2 bubbles. If they weren't so ugly I think a spray bar would do a great job of this. Instead I want to try a way of spreading the filter outflow the best I can with an attractive filter outlet, possibly with a spin pipe or maybe even split the filter into two outlets.

Second experiment will be to use an external CO2 air stone rather than an inline one. This means the CO2 levels outlet of the filter will be equal to the CO2 content of the tanks water so you're not providing this saturated stream.

For quick removal I 100% recommend direct dosing with APT Fix. It works, it's fantastic and will kill it off in a week. Great product, but as always you can't fix the problem without addressing the source.

I realise from a scientific point of view I use the term saturated and super saturated incorrectly in my post, but I'm sure you get the jist.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

but in my opinion is that it is only prevalent in a healthy tank in areas of high flow with highly concentrated co2 bubbles. This, in my experience, means that BBA grows like a weed in the flow of the filter outlet.

It grows in high flow areas in my low tech tanks, I think this is because there are areas which the Ramshorn snails <"can't reach to graze">. It is also really common in <"high flow non-planted tanks">, where CO2 obviously isn't in use, but a lot of air bubbles are present.

This is from <"PlanetCatfish">.

cheers Darrel

 

[LMuhlen]

My own experience, in my 325L tank, was that BBA were a constant until I replaced my inline CO2 diffuser with a reactor. They have never returned to this tank since then and when I rebuilt it 8 months ago, still using the reactor, they didn't show up at all.

 

[xZaiox]

General school of thought is that BBA is effected by fluctuating CO2 levels, but in my opinion is that it is only prevalent in a healthy tank in areas of high flow with highly concentrated co2 bubbles.

Tbh I don't think the co2 bubbles are relevant. I swapped from an inline diffuser to a cerges co2 reactor, so the tank is now bubble free and it's made no difference to the BBA at all. My CO2 is stable within 0.1 pH from lights on till off.

It grows in high flow areas in my low tech tanks, I think this is because there are areas which the Ramshorn snails <"can't reach to graze">.

Darrel, I wonder if this is maybe an indirect effect? Like the snails consuming detritus and thus reducing organic pollution in the water? I say this because I added ramshorn snails to my tank in hopes they may also reduce BBA, they've been in there for 6+ months now and there is no difference from them at all.

I absolutely agree with others that flow makes a difference. I used to run a wavemaker to augment flow to areas that seemed stagnant, and I had massive BBA blooms here, entire plant leaves covered with the stuff. This resolved when I turned off the wavemaker and just let the plants be in a low-flow area. I still have some in the flow from my main filter, and I am trying to figure out how to get rid of it. I have a feeling organics play a role.

 

[Epiphyte]

Tbh I don't think the co2 bubbles are relevant. I swapped from an inline diffuser to a cerges co2 reactor, so the tank is now bubble free and it's made no difference to the BBA at all. My CO2 is stable within 0.1 pH from lights on till off.

Darrel, I wonder if this is maybe an indirect effect? Like the snails consuming detritus and thus reducing organic pollution in the water? I say this because I added ramshorn snails to my tank in hopes they may also reduce BBA, they've been in there for 6+ months now and there is no difference from them at all.

I absolutely agree with others that flow makes a difference. I used to run a wavemaker to augment flow to areas that seemed stagnant, and I had massive BBA blooms here, entire plant leaves covered with the stuff. This resolved when I turned off the wavemaker and just let the plants be in a low-flow area. I still have some in the flow from my main filter, and I am trying to figure out how to get rid of it. I have a feeling organics play a role.

By bubbles I just mean highly CO2 concentrate water flows. Did you find the CO2 reactor removed the BBA in the flow?

Look at ADA tanks for reference, they actually use really low flow, superjet filters are comparatively "weak" compared to the tank size they recommend them for.

I see ISTA sell a glass spray bar set, I'm going to AG on Thursday I might give it a shot of it doesn't look awful.

What we need is high volume low pressure style filtration, that's my aim for the next Scape to see if I can get rid of it

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Darrel, I wonder if this is maybe an indirect effect? Like the snails consuming detritus and thus reducing organic pollution in the water? I say this because I added ramshorn snails to my tank in hopes they may also reduce BBA, they've been in there for 6+ months now and there is no difference from them at all.

They definitely work over time. I always have Ramshorn snails now (since 2008, and possibly before that), so I can't remember what the original time scale was. All of my tanks have some mulm, but they also have a lot of oxygen, so I'm working on the theory that that <"doesn't contribute much BOD">.

I think they graze the <"sporelings off in the biofilm"> and don't have any effect on the mature "plants". Soon or later the mature plants detach (possibly due to <"alternation of generations">) and no (or very few) new plants grow.

I'm not sure there is a single answer, I think we are in the <"shades of grey zone">, where there are multiple factors interacting and a number of loci where the probability of BBA is low.

cheers Darrel

 

[xZaiox]

Did you find the CO2 reactor removed the BBA in the flow?

Nah, the CO2 reactor hasn't made any difference in the BBA. I'm using a spray bar as my main filter's output, I've been tempted to try turning down the flow a little on the main filter, but I'm a bit nervous to pull that trigger out of fears of inadequate CO2 distribution I'm currently doing some experimenting with fertilisers, but if this doesn't lead anywhere productive, then reducing overall flow will be my next experimental step.

I think they graze the <"sporelings off in the biofilm"> and don't have any effect on the mature "plants".

I'm definitely pro-snail now, I have ramshorns, bladder snails, malaysian trumpet snails (my favourite ones), and a nerite snail. They definitely help the tank look cleaner (like less dust algae on the glass), I've just unfortunately not noticed anything regarding the BBA.

I'm not sure there is a single answer, I think we are in the <"shades of grey zone">, where there are multiple factors interacting and a number of loci where the probability of BBA is low.

Agreed

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I'm definitely pro-snail now, I have ramshorns, bladder snails, malaysian trumpet snails (my favourite ones)

I'd look on those three (along with <"Asellus aquaticus">) as the <"essential no maintenance"> <"tank janitors">, that every tank should have. I wouldn't ever have had a tank without a floating plant (and I'm obviously a <"Frogbit obsessive">) or <"moss"> and now I wouldn't have a tank without some janitors, they just make life easier.

I really like Northern River Shrimp <"Crangonyx pseudogracilis"> and California Blackworm (<"Lumbriculus variegatus">) as well, the only issue with them as that they are cat-nip to nearly all fish and "janitor" rapidly becomes "live food source".

cheers Darrel

 

[Mat H]

I thought flow was the issue myself as initially turning off powerhead and Oase skimmer helped (areas they were hitting were excessively covered in BBA), however it wasn't a solution as the BBA was just spread more evenly across the tank and the reduced flow was to the detriment of my plants general health.

I posted my recent experiences here, though I appreciate every set up is different and that different things work for different people (I've read most of the varying suggested causes), so I can only really say this is what worked for my own tank.

Post in thread 'What exactly is fluctuating CO2 in relation to BBA' What exactly is fluctuating CO2 in relation to BBA

P.s. I should really have added Ramshorns as (key) - my initial observations were two tanks, same CO2, same water / water change regime, same plants, same hardscape [differing wood]... one with BBA, one without... the one with BBA had no Ramshorns (or MTS), the one without BBA had plenty of Ramshorns (and MTS) - both had similar proportional amounts of Nerites, Shrimp, Otocinclus & Otothyropsis Piribebuy (Loricariidae) as I've recently discovered).

 

[AlecF]

thanks for explaining that Darrel. As an innocent I've read and understood that flow is good, but the only algae issues I have are on a sword by my spray bar, and on the spray bar itself. With persistent bad algae. It doesn't seem to a affect anywhere else run the tank.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I've read and understood that flow is good, but the only algae issues I have are on a sword by my spray bar, and on the spray bar itself. With persistent bad algae. It doesn't seem to a affect anywhere else run the tank.

It is just conjecture, but the only places I I tend to get any <"Black Brush Algae"> (BBA) are places where the <"flow is very fast"> (outlets of powerheads etc) or <"on filter sponges">.

I don't have any proof (or tanks without snails) but I think that lack of grazing by Ramshorn snails (Planorbella duryi) is the major factor in allowing BBA to grow there.

cheers Darrel

 

[AlecF]

your tank and my tank = absolute scientific proof.