chuppy
Seedling
Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape
I agreew with mark. If you like it. then it'll work out. Since you're the owner anyway.
Drew
I agreew with mark. If you like it. then it'll work out. Since you're the owner anyway.
Drew
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Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - 12 Rummy Nosed Tetras Added
- Thread starter Bobtastic
- Start date
NeilW
Member
Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape
don't know if you've come across this?
http://www.aquajournal.net/na/iwagumi/index.html
this is good too as its an explanation of how you can approach it;
http://www.aquajournal.net/room/iwagumi_philosophy.html
Obviously these are only Amano guidelines but thought they may be helpful
don't know if you've come across this?
http://www.aquajournal.net/na/iwagumi/index.html
this is good too as its an explanation of how you can approach it;
http://www.aquajournal.net/room/iwagumi_philosophy.html
Obviously these are only Amano guidelines but thought they may be helpful
Bobtastic
Member
Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape
Yeah, I've been having a look at them and browsing the internet at large for inspiration. I must admit that I feel I have limitations from the size/dimensions of my tank, which is unusual by regular plants/aquascaped tanks (It's quite tall for its length). Also the sizes and shapes of the rocks I have. When I got them I just chose them at random, as they were scavenged from the wild rather than purchased from a shop. These two thing couple with my creativity (or lack there of) equals the results we see here.
I must admit that I don't really understand most of the "principals" of iwagumi or the "Golden Ration" for that matter!
Yeah, I've been having a look at them and browsing the internet at large for inspiration. I must admit that I feel I have limitations from the size/dimensions of my tank, which is unusual by regular plants/aquascaped tanks (It's quite tall for its length). Also the sizes and shapes of the rocks I have. When I got them I just chose them at random, as they were scavenged from the wild rather than purchased from a shop. These two thing couple with my creativity (or lack there of) equals the results we see here.
I must admit that I don't really understand most of the "principals" of iwagumi or the "Golden Ration" for that matter!
NeilW
Member
Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape
The 'principles' of Iwagumi are either observations by Amano of rock formations in nature or rules that were laid down in Buddhism that were adapted by him. Sometimes the Buddhist 'rules' are more symbolic and less naturalistic like 'this stone is a tortoise, this stone is a representation of a Buddha, this gravel is the sea' or can also be a more stylised version of nature so Amano bought these down to earth to agree with his Nature Aquarium ethos.
Simply put The Golden Ratio was something the philosophers of Greece found out from calculations that coincidently compositions in nature normally lie in proportions of roughly thirds or a ratio of 1:618. They then went mad for it and used it to work out proportions for architecture, statues etc because it was the 'ideal'. For us lot this means if you whack a rock a third of the way across the tank its meant to look more natural then if you put it in the middle.
All these 'rules' though wether Japanese or Greek were cultural things and observations so feel free to make your own observations too and not feel intimidated that you must do something that agrees with the 'principles of Iwagumi' or whatever.
My favourite tanks with rock formations normally ignore the rules to some degree for example this composition by Oliver Knott;
Centralised, no clear focal point (for me anyways) but it just works as it looks like something we would see in nature as a formation.
As for tank dimensions you can always use that as a limitation to fuel creativity as you then have some constraints to work with. My only setup is a nano that has unusual proportions but part of the fun was working how it would all fit in. My layout breaks the rules too as your meant to use odd numbers of rocks whilst I only have two obvious main rocks and four rocks in total. The main stone is positioned to roughly a third but then it sticks out above the waterline. Despite these things it agrees with my experience of nature and therefore looks 'right' to me.
By ignoring the rules to some degree you can create something unique to you.
Bobtastic said:
The 'principles' of Iwagumi are either observations by Amano of rock formations in nature or rules that were laid down in Buddhism that were adapted by him. Sometimes the Buddhist 'rules' are more symbolic and less naturalistic like 'this stone is a tortoise, this stone is a representation of a Buddha, this gravel is the sea' or can also be a more stylised version of nature so Amano bought these down to earth to agree with his Nature Aquarium ethos.
Simply put The Golden Ratio was something the philosophers of Greece found out from calculations that coincidently compositions in nature normally lie in proportions of roughly thirds or a ratio of 1:618. They then went mad for it and used it to work out proportions for architecture, statues etc because it was the 'ideal'. For us lot this means if you whack a rock a third of the way across the tank its meant to look more natural then if you put it in the middle.
All these 'rules' though wether Japanese or Greek were cultural things and observations so feel free to make your own observations too and not feel intimidated that you must do something that agrees with the 'principles of Iwagumi' or whatever.
My favourite tanks with rock formations normally ignore the rules to some degree for example this composition by Oliver Knott;
Centralised, no clear focal point (for me anyways) but it just works as it looks like something we would see in nature as a formation.
As for tank dimensions you can always use that as a limitation to fuel creativity as you then have some constraints to work with. My only setup is a nano that has unusual proportions but part of the fun was working how it would all fit in. My layout breaks the rules too as your meant to use odd numbers of rocks whilst I only have two obvious main rocks and four rocks in total. The main stone is positioned to roughly a third but then it sticks out above the waterline. Despite these things it agrees with my experience of nature and therefore looks 'right' to me.
By ignoring the rules to some degree you can create something unique to you.
Bobtastic
Member
Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape
Thanks for the reply Neil! It's helped me get my head around things.
It difficult to get the full feeling of the scapes I've being toying with though photos, that and the fact that they are just placed in cat litter atm without any of the graded gravel doesn't help their look. Plus everything will look a lot different when the plants go in.
I'm definitely getting close to transferring "something" into the tank proper! hehe
Thanks for the reply Neil! It's helped me get my head around things.
It difficult to get the full feeling of the scapes I've being toying with though photos, that and the fact that they are just placed in cat litter atm without any of the graded gravel doesn't help their look. Plus everything will look a lot different when the plants go in.
I'm definitely getting close to transferring "something" into the tank proper! hehe
NeilW
Member
Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape
No worries. I just don't like seeing people feeling bad about what they've created when it should be about chilling and having some fun with it. For me creating a layout is my favourite part! If you don't get it first time then sometimes its best to step back from it and try and work out the 'prettiest' side of the best stone and work from that. What Amano, some Buddhist monks and an ancient Greek have to say should only be helpful, not something that should put you off.
TBH I've never done trial layouts with sand or whatever as I think I would be disappointed if I couldn't recreate the same thing for real in the tank, although I've roughly sketched stuff out or had a strong idea in my head to begin with. Just a warning though that I read somewhere here before that its bad idea to keep moving big rocks around in Aqua Soil as it can break it down to mud when you put the water in!
Keep up the good work,
Neil
No worries. I just don't like seeing people feeling bad about what they've created when it should be about chilling and having some fun with it. For me creating a layout is my favourite part! If you don't get it first time then sometimes its best to step back from it and try and work out the 'prettiest' side of the best stone and work from that. What Amano, some Buddhist monks and an ancient Greek have to say should only be helpful, not something that should put you off.
TBH I've never done trial layouts with sand or whatever as I think I would be disappointed if I couldn't recreate the same thing for real in the tank, although I've roughly sketched stuff out or had a strong idea in my head to begin with. Just a warning though that I read somewhere here before that its bad idea to keep moving big rocks around in Aqua Soil as it can break it down to mud when you put the water in!
Keep up the good work,
Neil
Bobtastic
Member
Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape
It's ok. I'm currently using cat litter to trial my setups.
It's ok. I'm currently using cat litter to trial my setups.
NeilW
Member
Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape
I think if I used cat litter it would get used for its original purpose
I think if I used cat litter it would get used for its original purpose
Bobtastic
Member
Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape
Lol it will do once the tank is up and running!
Lol it will do once the tank is up and running!
Bobtastic
Member
Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape
Ok... so after approx. 6months of organisation or "procrastination" I have started the strip down of my original scape. This in itself through up some more challenges... Such as how do you separate over 15litres of ADA Malaya and cap sand...
My current attempt method is to syphon the cap sand off into a separate container, trying to leave as much aquasoil behind as I can. I'll then try to dry out the sand/AS mix and sieve it apart!
What in ppls experience is the easiest way to dry out sand/soil mixes? Mine is currently sat next to a radiator...
Ok... so after approx. 6months of organisation or "procrastination" I have started the strip down of my original scape. This in itself through up some more challenges... Such as how do you separate over 15litres of ADA Malaya and cap sand...
My current attempt method is to syphon the cap sand off into a separate container, trying to leave as much aquasoil behind as I can. I'll then try to dry out the sand/AS mix and sieve it apart!
What in ppls experience is the easiest way to dry out sand/soil mixes? Mine is currently sat next to a radiator...
Tom
Member
Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape
Spread it out thinly on a tray and leave it somewhere warm
Spread it out thinly on a tray and leave it somewhere warm
Bobtastic
Member
Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape
Yeah, that's a good idea, but I have a lot of it. Also a 5year old boy that likes to touch. Not to mention the the cat! I don't want him to add any extra personalised "substrates" in there!
Yeah, that's a good idea, but I have a lot of it. Also a 5year old boy that likes to touch. Not to mention the the cat! I don't want him to add any extra personalised "substrates" in there!
Bobtastic
Member
Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape
Oh, ok. I do like the sound of that. It's a little more immediate. Did you have any problems with the AS crumbling or breaking up whilst you were doing that?
Oh, ok. I do like the sound of that. It's a little more immediate. Did you have any problems with the AS crumbling or breaking up whilst you were doing that?
Bobtastic
Member
Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape
I went and got myself a cheap value sieve from Tesco and started sieving! I must say that the results were good, though a lot of hard work. Unfortunately the sieves grade was a little too small for best result as a portion of the sand was not passing through.
So I took a spoon in hand and scooped out as much AS as I could. May see if I can find a larger grade sieve, but I'm not confident that my local shops will stock anything different.
I went and got myself a cheap value sieve from Tesco and started sieving! I must say that the results were good, though a lot of hard work. Unfortunately the sieves grade was a little too small for best result as a portion of the sand was not passing through.
So I took a spoon in hand and scooped out as much AS as I could. May see if I can find a larger grade sieve, but I'm not confident that my local shops will stock anything different.
Bobtastic
Member
Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape
Ok, so for the most part the AS and sand is now separated! And what fun it was too....! During the process of the sieving I seem to have three definite and distinctly different elements. I obviously have the AS, and I have the sand, but I also have what can only be described as "brown sludge". I'm assuming that this sludge is a mix of fine sand particles and broken down AS, but what I want to know is, is it any use to me? Or am I best just getting rid of it?
Ok, so for the most part the AS and sand is now separated! And what fun it was too....! During the process of the sieving I seem to have three definite and distinctly different elements. I obviously have the AS, and I have the sand, but I also have what can only be described as "brown sludge". I'm assuming that this sludge is a mix of fine sand particles and broken down AS, but what I want to know is, is it any use to me? Or am I best just getting rid of it?
Bobtastic
Member
Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape
Here's the beginnings of the new hardscape :-
Still work to do. Tweeks and possibly more rock and a change to the gradient but we're officially underway!
EDIT : And introducing the final hardscape!
Thoughts and comments, as always, very welcome!
Here's the beginnings of the new hardscape :-
Still work to do. Tweeks and possibly more rock and a change to the gradient but we're officially underway!
EDIT : And introducing the final hardscape!
Thoughts and comments, as always, very welcome!
Bobtastic
Member
Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape
Sorry for the bump, but I would really like some feed back on this scape.
Sorry for the bump, but I would really like some feed back on this scape.
Tom
Member
Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape
I think you will find that the rocks might be a bit small once the plants are grown in. It might also help the depth and perspective of the layout to place some rocks towards the front and back of the tank rather than in a straight line. Otherwise it might look quite 'flat'.
Do you have any more soil? A higher slope can also help with the perspective and depth of a layout - in your case either a mount in the middle, or more of a slope up to the back left corner.
Hope that helps
Bobtastic said:
I think you will find that the rocks might be a bit small once the plants are grown in. It might also help the depth and perspective of the layout to place some rocks towards the front and back of the tank rather than in a straight line. Otherwise it might look quite 'flat'.
Do you have any more soil? A higher slope can also help with the perspective and depth of a layout - in your case either a mount in the middle, or more of a slope up to the back left corner.
Hope that helps
