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Brown Algae

The problem with moss is tying them on to the rock. It took a lot a time and pain to put those rocks in place. And its going to be really difficult to take them out and tie the moss and put back in the tank. So i think i will instead tie few Fissidens and other mosses on the wood like patches here and there. Between will they thrive in a none co2 set up ??

Crypt wendetii brown is definitely a nice idea as this will give different color scheme to the tank. Thanks for the idea but this depends on the availability of plants here in India. Do you guys know any reliable source in india.
 
You can use superglue to fix the moss to surfaces. Lower the water level to expose the surface and dab a bit on on it. Use the gel type super glue. Mosses and ferns do very well in bob-CO2, you just have to be patient. These are the plants that people grew before CO2 became widespread. Anything that grows naturally in your country will do well in that tank, no worries at all mate. What I envision in that tank which seems fairly tall (there's too much blank space in the upper areas) is the use of very thin and tall "branching out" type wood that stretches out horizontally at it's top, sort of like an Acacia tree on the African savannah. Then glue moss on the "branches" so that when they grow in it simulates a mango tree. Very appropriate for an Indian tank Willow moss or Xmas moss would look really cool forming the "leaves" of the tree. :)

I'm fairly certain that if you contact any of our sponsors they can arrange shipment to your location.

Cheers,
 
Mate your concept of filling the area with tree like structure is awesome.. But im having no clue on how to start it. May be with all your help i can bring up such scape. First let me try to attach few mosses to the existing wood, so we can see the result of moss in my tank.

Regarding your idea of tree structure, i know getting wood is the first and foremost step in this process, so i will try inquiring for such woods in India. In the meantime if you guys find any woods with our sponsors then let me know. BUT THIS PROJECT IS ONLY AFTER GETTING THE PRESENT SETUP AND PLANTS TO A NORMAL CONDITION:crazy:
 
Yeah, absolutely mate. Without a doubt, our sponsors TGM and AE will have the root type wood. Check their websites.

Cheers,
 
Dinesh said:
Regarding your idea of tree structure, i know getting wood is the first and foremost step in this process, so i will try inquiring for such woods in India.
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Are you based in India or UK? I just looked back at your photos and saw the living room, looks like a house in India to me. :)
I would have thought you must be able to source some excellent wood overthere. The piece you already have in the tank is very nice tree structure. I notice the Indonesian guys have access to real nice wood scape i am sure you would be able too.
 
Ceg, i will first try to source it locally in my place as one of my friend had promised me to get few strange tree looking woods. Will post pictures once i get any update from him. If not satisfied then i will try one of our sponsor.
 
sanj said:
Are you based in India or UK? I just looked back at your photos and saw the living room, looks like a house in India to me. :)
I would have thought you must be able to source some excellent wood overthere. The piece you already have in the tank is very nice tree structure. I notice the Indonesian guys have access to real nice wood scape i am sure you would be able too.
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Hi Sanj, You are right and your absolutely guessed it with the living room. Hope i do get good woods here in india. And between both the tank of yours look stunning. Keep doing great scapes mate.
 
Hey Ceg, narrow leaf ferns are starting to give out new sprouts on the leaves. Hope the baby plants survives unlike the parent plant which is dying. :nailbiting:
 
Hi Dinesh,
Well there are a couple of things that could be happening. The young plant is small so has smaller CO2 requirements, plus, if it is still attached to the large leaf may be leeching. Also, it could be that the leaves of the young plant are better adapted to life submerged than the main plant, which may have been grown emersed. Oftentimes, when you place a plant underwater, or apply environmental stress, the original leaves perish but the plant recovers and sends out new leaves with a completely different construction that is better able to cope with being flooded and is more efficient at gathering CO2.

Cheers,
 
ceg4048 said:
Hi Dinesh,
Well there are a couple of things that could be happening. The young plant is small so has smaller CO2 requirements, plus, if it is still attached to the large leaf may be leeching. Also, it could be that the leaves of the young plant are better adapted to life submerged than the main plant, which may have been grown emersed. Oftentimes, when you place a plant underwater, or apply environmental stress, the original leaves perish but the plant recovers and sends out new leaves with a completely different construction that is better able to cope with being flooded and is more efficient at gathering CO2.

Cheers,
Click to expand...
Hi Ceg,
The baby plant is still attached to the parent plant and it must be leeching. Hope is gets acclimatized to being flooded condition. Excited. So i can now breath easy as the ferns are sprouting the water parameters must me ok (i'm not meaning my water parameters are perfect but still lies within acceptable range to grow plants submerged)....... other plants in my tank i.e anubias which was showing crinkling in new leaves and regular fern which is having black spots will also slowly get adopted to being flooded and will develop itself to these conditions. Right ??
 
The only parameter that counts is the level of CO2. The adaptations that plants make when submerged are all about the functions of collecting CO2 and exchanging gases such as Oxygen. When the lighting is intense it causes many problems with those functions.

Cheers,
 
Mate can i induce liquid CO2 and see if that is helping my anubias and ferns ?? If yes advise me some better options for liquid CO2.
 
Hi Dinesh,
Well, yes you can, but it's a large tank and that would consume quite a bit of the liquid...and that really needs to be done every day....and you would need to do more frequent large water changes...and if you use more liquid carbon you then should also increase the fertilizer dosing...and...and all of a sudden the train rolls down the hill without brakes and it departs the station without you.

If I were going to spend more money, I would, in this case, chose to spend it on more plants to fill that space, however if you can tick all or most the boxes I listed above then sure, adding CO2 in any form will improve the growth rates, but there is also a different set of problems associated with enriching a tank with Carbon. There are PLENTY of Carbon enriched tanks with algae as well - they just have a different algae because the problems are different.

If you have access to hospital supplies and reagents you might try to get access to gluteraldehyde, because that's basically what liquid carbon products are. Then you can mix your own for much cheaper. If you have to this product at your location then shipping isn't a problem but prices may be.

You could start off by dosing the bottle instructions once per day and that would give an advantage which would improve as the dosage increases.

Cheers,
 
Ceg, i understand that when once i start inducing co2 other requirements of the plants are alo going to increase. But at this present situation where none of my plants new growth are showing any good signs i think i should ATLEAST try these liquid co2 for some time till i get some improvement over the new growth.

Once after getting goods sign from my plants new growth then i can think of something which is more economical in long run.
 
Yeah mate, I totally understand. I know exactly how you feel. As I mentioned, if cost is not prohibitive and if you are willing to do a little extra work, I see no reason that it cant be accomplished. It's just very scary for me to think about a two meter liquid carbon tank. I hope you have some extra Italian marble tiles. You might have to sell a few on ebay to support this liquid carbon habit. :wave:

Cheers,
 
Mate cost shouldnt be problem but will be strictly limited only to equipments which assists to attain a lush green scape and i do not want to spend on fishes ad plants. I mean I dont want to put alot of plants to just to cover the tank quickly but instead let the plants take over and cover all by its new growth over a period of time once their basic needs are met. For this i'm going to first try with liquid co2 only to understand basics with planted tank
In long run liquid co2 like you said its going to really expensive for tank this size. So later i will opt pressurized set up. Is it right ?? I again need you guys help in selecting the right type of pressurized options.
 
Hi mate,
Yes that's right. I also suggest that you visit the webpage of any of our sponsors that sell the dry powder fertilizers and use these instead of the commercial liquid you currently use. As sanj mentions, if you live in India you should be able to find all kinds of native aquatic plants if there are any waterways nearby. I know it's a big country though so you might not have direct access.

If you intend to go down the path of a CO2 enriched tank, then it's advisable to read the articles in the Tutorial section of the forum. Even though the articles assume the reader has gas injection, you can ignore that because the rest of the information still applies.

When you're ready to use a gas system then just let us know.:)

Cheers,
 
Ceg,
I got a seachem 1ltr liquid carbon. Hope that will last for about a month and half. But once the 1st bottle of liquid carbon gets over there is no turning back, just want to switch over to pressurized gas cylinder. Because like you said in long run liquid carbon is definitely not a good idea. So please guide me with pressurized set up .. will start to gather bits and parts right away by your advise. So once a after month when my liquid carbon ceases to exist i will have all bits and parts in my hand required to inject gas into my tank.

Its hard to find any naturally submerged plants in the place where in live....I do find few LFS having few stem plants but my worry is all about the snails that they give it along with the plants. It just blooms in some time causing my tank look very messy. If they were snail free then i would not have any problem with these LFS.
 
Mate will a DIY yeast based co2 injection work in my tank ?
 
Hi Dinesh,
Really I would strongly advise to stay away from yeast based systems in general, and on that size tank in particular, because that's another set of problems altogether, primarily because you have very poor control of the gas production, which induces some forms of algae that are a lot tougher to get rid of than brown algae. If you're going to do gas then do it right.

There are many different competent gas cylinder regulators, so that part is easy, but the difficult part is always finding a regular supply of the gas. You can use CO2 fire extinguishers and follow the guide in the Tutorial section Fire extinguisher CO2 | UK Aquatic Plant Society or you can use any cylinder that contains liquid CO2 such as beverage cylinders or welding cylinders. There should be an industrial gas company or companies that supply professional CO2 cylinder rentals and refill/replacement.

The most important feature of the cylinder, wherever you get it from, is that the coupling on the cylinder valve uses the European standard DIN477. In that way, you can fit a regulator like the one shown here on TGM website: Aquamedic Regulator

Then, to control when the gas turns on and off automatically (without your having to remember every day) you would do well to get a solenoid like the on pictured on TGM SolenoidNow, this isn't strictly required, because you can just leave the gas running 24 hours per day. It's probably worthwhile to try both ways, just to see which is more hassle free and which gives the best results. If you do use a solenoid then you'll need a timer to tell the solenoid when to co on and off and when to turn the tank lights on and off. I'm just being lazy here, so I'm staying on the TGM website just to show you examples: Electro-Mechanical Timer
Again, I'm also assuming that India uses 220V and those big cumbersome three-pronged plugs. I'll let you figure out any needed adapters, especially if you wind up buying from Asia, or from mainland Europe instead of UK.

The next thing you need to think about is how to mix the gas with the water. For smaller tanks, it's easy enough to put an "airstone" like disk inside the tank, but for behemoths such as what you have, it might be a better idea to use what's called an "in-line" device where the output of the filter mixes with the gas before it returns to the tank. These devices seem to work better in larger tanks, but it's up to you depending on how elegant you want the tank to look. Have a look at this page: TGM Diffuser Types
The only two in-line devices on that page are the Aquamedic AM1000 and the CalAqua
There are other types such as the UpAtomizers that are less expensive and work just as well as these. If you are handy, you can even make your own reactor out of nothing more than PVC tubing and some fittings.

After these items, the rest are sundries such as CO2 compatible tubing and dropcheckers, 4dkh water and pH reagent, all of which are very easy to get. I would suggest that you stick with any of our sponsors who sell this gear. AquaEssentials offers similar equipment.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
 
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