Cardinals with EI + hard water

[Morgan Freeman]

Isn't easier to blame EI for everything?

Why deduce?
Why really know?

hehe...........

Come on, it just feels right.


regards,
Tom Barr

No, I am not attempting to place blame ,Merely suggesting that if one chooses to place soft water fishes in hard alkaline water(not sure why one would) and the fishes do poorly,, I might consider cutting the source water with Filtered rainwater,distilled water,or R/O water and then see if fishes fair better.

Of course, obviously the preferred solution would be soft water fishes in soft water, but if plenty of people aren't having problems, them perhaps the issue needs looking into further to establish what is causing issues for those with soft water fish in hard conditions.

 

[ghostsword]

Homeopathy isn't dangerous because there's nothing in it.

Ok, so if Homeopathy is not dangerous, and EI is like Homeopathy for plants and fish, then it is obvious that EI is not dangerous, just like Homeopathy is not.

But with regards to soft water and hardwater, I am sure that fish are able to adapt to whatever condition they are in, is not like we are putting salt water fish on fresh water tanks.

 

[Morgan Freeman]

Homeopathy isn't dangerous because there's nothing in it.

Ok, so if Homeopathy is not dangerous, and EI is like Homeopathy for plants and fish, then it is obvious that EI is not dangerous, just like Homeopathy is not.

But EI isn't homeopathy for plants :/ Homeopathy works on the principle that the more diluted something is the more potent it is, plus a few magic shakes. Anything homeopathic isn't dangerous purely because it's diluted to such an extent that it may aswell just be water.

I've just looked up Tissue Salts and they're not really homeopathic, they're just diluted 3x or maybe up to 6x. Still enough to maintain enough of the active ingredients. Basically, EI is safe for other reasons.

 

[BigTom]

Apologies for going off topic, but I really can't resist -

 

[niru]

Oh! So you mean we ought to give our cardinals some white pills before putting them in hard water :idea:

Jokes apart, is there any thread on some respectable fish keeping forums regarding hardwater toxicity on cardinals?

 

[ghostsword]

Homeopathy isn't dangerous because there's nothing in it.

Ok, so if Homeopathy is not dangerous, and EI is like Homeopathy for plants and fish, then it is obvious that EI is not dangerous, just like Homeopathy is not.

But EI isn't homeopathy for plants :/ Homeopathy works on the principle that the more diluted something is the more potent it is, plus a few magic shakes. Anything homeopathic isn't dangerous purely because it's diluted to such an extent that it may aswell just be water.

I've just looked up Tissue Salts and they're not really homeopathic, they're just diluted 3x or maybe up to 6x. Still enough to maintain enough of the active ingredients. Basically, EI is safe for other reasons.

You may be right..

Tissue salts are not prescribed homeopathically but nutritionally. For the homeopathic prescribing picture of the same substances see the A-Z links at the top of the normal materia medica. Instead of the dilution having the ratio of 1:99 as in homeopathic remedies, the Tissue salts are prepared to the ratio of 1:9, which means that they still contain physical quantities, although minute, of the original substances. Rather than treating "like with like" though these tissue salt remedies treat ailments by correcting imbalances or deficiencies in the body's cell nutrition.
http://www.homeopathy-help.net/Theory/FAQS/tissue.html

I am not an expert on homeopathy, just that the family swears by the effectiveness of it and the use of tissue salts and I swear by the effectiveness of EI, and EI being very similar to tissue salts, they do seem to go together.

 

[Morgan Freeman]

Homeopathic can work, but purely due to the placebo effect, which should never be underestimated. There is no peer reviewed study demonstrating effectiveness beyond the level you would expect for a placebo. But anyway, going way off topic!

I know more about homeopathy than EI

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Nearly all literature, with respect to cardinal tetra's suggest soft acidic water, and a bit warmer than what many other tetra's enjoy..........Most experienced hobbyist's would suggest that soft water species will fair better longer,in soft water and hard water fishes, will fair better in more alkaline water if it is the longterm health of the fishes that are of primary concern. Have followed this principal for 40 years and it has served me and scores of other's well.

I know where the other posters are coming from, but I tend to agree with this. I think the factor that we tend to forget is that our planted tanks, with lots of flow and water changes, are often providing much better conditions (in terms of water quality and a complex environment that reduces stress) than the average fish keeper does, meaning that our fish persist even in water that is sub-optimal for them in terms of chemical composition. It is analogous to the way that many fish breeders can breed their fish in relatively bare tanks, if they supply the minimum requirements (just a pair of fish, good diet, clean water, spawning mop etc.) for that species to spawn.

In the fish I know most about , the SA dwarf cichlids, a few species are difficult to maintain away from a very limited set of parameters, including very clean, low conductivity, acid water(Biotecus spp., Apistogramma diplotaenia for example), but most of the others can be quite successfully maintained, and will live healthy normal lives, in most highly oxygenated clean water, with a varied diet and a complex environment to live in. Normally what they won't do is breed successfully, and even if fertile eggs are produced, no free swimming fry will result. As I'm only interested in fish I can maintain over more than one generation, I now know that my rain-water is too hard and "salty" to successfully breed most "black water" cichlids, even used at 100% rain-water. Dicrossus filamentosus is an example, I've kept them, they spawn, but I never raised them successfully.

cheers Darrel

 

[niru]

Great info Darrel!

If I got it correct then fish kind of compromise the water chemical composition to some level if they find a very "natural" environment in terms of plants, shaded areas, resting and hiding places etc.. Thes pros in planted tanks help mitigate (to some level) the cons of having a sub-optimal water chemistry. Cardinals could be more resilient than your Cichlids and so can still survive in a wider water-hardness scale. Guess its pretty difficult to gauge this stress enhancement Vs. reduction scenarios.. But a good line of thought to ponder about..

I always assumed that if fish are active, in shape, and a brightly/nicely coloured then they are not stressed. Perhaps we are in the green zone, but maybe only 90-95%. Providing them with their home-water would make it a perfect 100% comfort. Is there any stats on fish in "biotrope tanks" doing better than others?

 

[gmartins]

The main difference between marine and freshwater fish is related to osmoregulation between their bodies and the medium (water). freshwater fish are hipertonic in relation to the medium, whereas marine fish are hipotonic. That is the main reason why freshwater fish cannot survive in saltwater and vice versa.

Clearly, the differece betewen soft and hard fresh water is much smaller than between fresh and salt water. What I do not know, however, is how kh (and perhaps gh) are to affect fish osmoregulation, or if they have compensatory mechanisms. Some fish clearly do (brackish water fish).

GM

 

[PunjabiDragon]

I believe there is enough evidence from my expieriences, as well as forums littered with those who have been largely unsuccessful with keeping fishes that thrive in soft water in hard alkaline conditions,,,that one cannot easily dismiss suggested water parameter's.
I can wear shoes that are too small for my feet,but am much more comfortable when wearing shoes that fit properly.
Would agree that more fishes are killed by poor water conditions than nearly all other factors combined, but why court unnecessary problems ?
I would no more suggest to new hobbyist's that cardinal tetra's would be fine in hard alkaline water, than I would suggest Tanganyikan Featherfins, shellies, or the common mollie would be suited for soft acidic condition's .
The majority of them won't in my humble opinion.

Hi Roadmaster, and everyone else,
I am brand new in this wonderful.

Excuse my ignorance here, but how does one get soft water? I just added cardinals in my tank, and they seem to be thriving but it’s only been a week. I’m reading that they do prefer soft water, and I’d love to give it to them. But I don’t know where I can get any. Being in Chicago, the water here is very hard. Is there a way to buy/create this without messing with RO. Again, excuse my ignorance.

 

[Tim Harrison]

Welcome, you've revived an ancient thread

Most folk use RO or reverse osmosis water, many have their own filters. In the UK we also have pure water vending machines.
But I don't think it really matters, many fish are captive bred these days, often in local hard water so they're used to it.
Back in the day, I kept loads of different wild caught, so called "soft water species", in very hard water including cardinals and most thrived