Chihiros WRGB2 Pro has a separate 'white' LED channel but...

[oreo57]

Don't forget w/ RGB emitters the red and blue produce a lot of par but little in terms of lumens.

Let's look at lumens bigger brother.. lux.
Lumens/ m sq/ sec.

100 lux of low cri 6500k is 1.34 " par"

100 lux of 450/650 blue/ red diodes is 8.87 " par".

450 blue only 100 lux is 11.56 " par".
Close to an order of magnitude more par per lux.

Convert Lux to PPFD - Online Calculator | Waveform Lighting

Online calculator to convert illuminance (lux) to PPFD (micromoles per second per meter squared).

www.waveformlighting.com

Not defending pricing just clarifying.

 

[FISHnLAB]

Don't forget w/ RGB emitters the red and blue produce a lot of par but little in terms of lumens.

Let's look at lumens bigger brother.. lux.
Lumens/ m sq/ sec.

100 lux of low cri 6500k is 1.34 " par"

100 lux of 450/650 blue/ red diodes is 8.87 " par".

450 blue only 100 lux is 11.56 " par".
Close to an order of magnitude more par per lux.

Good to know, thanks. I wasn't aware there was such a difference in PAR between the two.

I own a high quality Lux Meter(Extech HD450) but, no PAR meter... Yet😁. I wonder if anyone can chime in with a LUX reading of a Chihiros WRGB 2 Pro 90 at 100%?

This light I am currently testing(I will put a link at the bottom) is putting out over 30000LUX@12" on 100%. It is $36EUR full price but, goes on sale like most things on Amazon...

Deruikeer LED Grow Light Dimmable 600W, Full Spectrum Dimmable Grow Lights for Seedlings with Samsung Diode and Daisy Chain, Suitable for Hydroponic Indoor Plants Veg and Flower 3X3ft, No Noise https://a.co/d/emxvkJW

Convert Lux to PPFD - Online Calculator | Waveform Lighting

Online calculator to convert illuminance (lux) to PPFD (micromoles per second per meter squared).

www.waveformlighting.com

Not defending pricing just clarifying.

Roger that👍.

 

[FISHnLAB]

Judging by the chart this light looks like it wouldn't be quite as warm/yellow...

What ya think?

 

[Wookii]

What ya think?

Hard to tell from just the spectral graph, but greens might be lacking quite a bit (bear in mind rendition of green plants is aesthetically very important in a planted tank), and you might be quite close to your typical purple grow light.

 

[FISHnLAB]

Hard to tell from just the spectral graph, but greens might be lacking quite a bit (bear in mind rendition of green plants is aesthetically very important in a planted tank), and you might be quite close to your typical purple grow light.

Yeah, hard to say for sure. I'm going to guess it wouldn't be that low on green though. Here is the spectral graph for my current aquarium light on my 3 gallon. As you can see, the green part of the spectrum is only a little higher(that chart is taken with all channels on 100% though). I have the green portion of the RGB's at only 20% and the greens are very bright and vibrant. In fact, any more then that and the tank starts to look green biased throughout. But, it does have much lower yellow and orange so who knows I guess without seeing it in person.

I ordered a new light yesterday to try and will report back. I got it for $66EUR on sale. It is the larger and more feature laden 100watt version of the one I am currently using. I will likely be keeping this one as my main grow light for my basement. It will power a 29 gallon propagation tank and 4 - 6 domed propagation trays. This light uses 6500K instead of 5000K for the cool white emitters so should be a little cooler overall. It also has a built in dimmer. Here is it's graph and emitter selection(320 total) ...

 

[FISHnLAB]

I think this is applicable here as well.

This is the Spectrum Graph for the Fluval Plant 3.0...

As you can see, it is terrible. Any light I posted here and most of the much cheaper aquarium lights on Amazon offer better colour reproduction then it. Yet, many use it to great avail for growing plants and are quite pleased with it overall. It's worst critiques seams to be a yellowy cast or lack of coverage.

So, we need to keep in mind that we are somewhat splitting hairs here and it is really more about aesthetics. What I would really like to see, is a controlled experiment of a top end aquarium plant light against a high end commercial grow light that includes UV & IR to see how much better the actual grow light grows aquatic plants. I may get motivated to do this experiment myself in the future once I finish my new tank build...

 

[Wookii]

It's worst critique seams to be a yellowy cast or lack of coverage.

I used one for about a year, and that pretty much sums it up. (Very good app though).

it is really more about aesthetics

Any basic light will grow plants without an issue if it has sufficient output, so yeah, choice for the aquarist is almost entirely about aesthetics (and a little about usability).

 

[FISHnLAB]

Here are the Spectrum Graphs for the ADA Solar RGB & Chihiros Vivid 2 just to touch on another point...

ADA

Chihiros

While these seam to be popular high end aquarium lights, I'm posting these to show an example of a ridiculous and artificial light spectrum. This is why they make the colours so exaggerated and oversaturated. They are basically boosting the red, green, and blue and leaving out other spectrums. This will render inaccurate and artificial colours not like the ones rendered by the sun(especially the missing spectrums) which I also included a spectral graph for. Some may think these lights look good but, they are definitely not accurate. They are akin to glow fish or other genetically modified for aesthetic reasons animals imo. Human created artificiality and not an attempt at mimicking nature.

Sunlight

All of that said, I'm sure the above lights still make aquariums look vibrant and ok overall and I may even buy one but, they are far from accurate colour reproduction and I think that needs to be pointed out...

 

[FISHnLAB]

I used one for about a year, and that pretty much sums it up. (Very good app though).

Good to know, thanks for the input. Yes, the app looks very good. If only they would make a pro version with 2-3 times the emitters/power and a world class spectrum... One can dream😊.

Any basic light will grow plants without an issue if it has sufficient output, so yeah, choice for the aquarist is almost entirely about aesthetics (and a little about usability).

Agreed. But, I do wonder how much better a quantity commercial grow light would grow aquatic plants compared to an aquarium specific one considering all the R&D that goes into tailoring them specifically to that task.

 

[Wookii]

Agreed. But, I do wonder how much better a quantity commercial grow light would grow aquatic plants compared to an aquarium specific one considering all the R&D that goes into tailoring them specifically to that task.

Unless you are setting up your home set-up to grow commercial quantities of plants (in which case you'd grow them all emersed anyway) . . . no difference at all. There will be a plethora of other variables in the tank that will limit any gfrowth, long before the lighting spectrum does.

While these seam to be popular high end aquarium lights, I'm posting these to show an example of a ridiculous and artificial light spectrum. This is why they make the colours so exaggerated and oversaturated. They are basically boosting the red, green, and blue and leaving out other spectrums. This will render inaccurate and artificial colours not like the ones rendered by the sun(especially the missing spectrums) which I also included a spectral graph for. Some may think these lights look good but, they are definitely not accurate. They are akin to glow fish or other genetically modified for aesthetic reasons animals imo. Human created artificiality and not an attempt at mimicking nature.

It comes down to personal preference at the end of the day. How many of the RGB based lights have you tested at home?

They can have a tendency to oversaturate as you suggest, but they are still head and shoulders better than any white LED based light out there. They may not render colours as accurately as the sun - and I agree when I get sunlight shining directly on my tank the colours look superb - but unless you plan to have your tank outdoors, we have to wait for LED technology to catch up before we can achieve similar rendering indoors. Until it does, the RGB LED's (with careful adjustment) give as close to it as we can get at the minute, despite the apparent 'peakiness' of their spectral response graph.

 

[FISHnLAB]

Unless you are setting up your home set-up to grow commercial quantities of plants (in which case you'd grow them all emersed anyway) . . . no difference at all. There will be a plethora of other variables in the tank that will limit any gfrowth, long before the lighting spectrum does.

I don't know if I fully agree with that. I have read several reports of Aquarist's plants changing growth patterns, rates, colour representation, etc. when they bought and installed a new type of aquarium lighting. To me this proves that using different spectrums can definitely have an affect on a plants growth characteristics. But yes, there are definitely many other things that can have a effect too.

It comes down to personal preference at the end of the day. How many of the RGB based lights have you tested at home?

Just 2, and never a high end one like ADA, Chihiros, Twinstar, etc as I got into this hobby only 4 months ago and planted my first aquatic plant about 4 weeks ago. I am as green as they come but, learn faster then many.

They can have a tendency to oversaturate as you suggest, but they are still head and shoulders better than any white LED based light out there. They may not render colours as accurately as the sun - and I agree when I get sunlight shining directly on my tank the colours look superb - but unless you plan to have your tank outdoors, we have to wait for LED technology to catch up before we can achieve similar rendering indoors. Until it does, the RGB LED's (with careful adjustment) give as close to it as we can get at the minute, despite the apparent 'peakiness' of their spectral response graph.

Honestly, I think it is likely a lack of someone trying to build the end all and be all aquarium light and get the right components to do it. Probably due to the cost of the finished product and the limited customer base that would buy it due to the final price. That and the top binned LED emitters go to large contracts and not to the likes of niche industries like aquascaping and fish keeping(I know this due to my other LED hobby). I don't think it would be that hard to build a light like the ADA Solar RGB that also use a bank of 98+CRI white emitters, in different CCT's with a very complete spectrum, to fill in the gaps and result in a sun like spectrum. One could also theoretically add other colour emitters as well to fill in the gaps. There are some companies like the German one we were talking about earlier that are coming close to a Sunlike spectrum but, the above mentioned issues and others are possibly handicapping them. But, who knows for sure I guess and I only have a limited knowledge on this topic...

 

[FISHnLAB]

I just want to add that I have heard people complain about off colours after buying an ADA, Chihiros, etc and installing it on their tank. Things like my Lemon Tetras look orange or red now instead of yellow like they should. The reason for this is the missing parts of the spectrum with these lights as seen in the spectral graphs. I think this is a perfect example of the artificiality that these lights offer and why they rub me the wrong way.

 

[FISHnLAB]

Here is an example of someone building a lightboard with a closer to Sunlike spectrum. This is just a bank of Nichia Optisolis too so one could mix them with RGB, UV, & IR emitters for possibly an even better solution(especially with user enabled full spectral control) . I bet this would render colours much more accurately then any aquarium lighting on the market even without the added emitters...

CRM-3050-Optisolis Mid Power Led MCPCB 3030 - Cutter Electronics

CRM-3050-Optisolis is a perfect small light engine approx 1000 lumens at around 6 watts, solderless option for centre wire draw 97-98 CRI

www.cutter.com.au

Optisolis™ Lighting | NICHIA CORPORATION

 

[FISHnLAB]

Yuji AP series would likely work great too...

 

[Wookii]

To me this proves that using different spectrums can definitely have an affect on a plants growth characteristics.

I don't think it proves anything. Did they all measure the change in PAR with the different light? I'd happily wager that if two lights are PAR matched with differing spectrums, you won't notice a jot of difference in aquarium plant growth once the plants are adapted in the context of a home aquarium. As I said before, there are far too many other factors that will have a far greater influence on growth.

Just 2, and never a high end one like ADA, Chihiros, Twinstar, etc as I got into this hobby only 4 months ago and planted my first aquatic plant about 4 weeks ago.

Which two then if not ADA or Chihiros? I like it that you are getting your teeth into it, but you need to reserve judgement until you've seen a proper RGB light over your tank. I've got around 10 different aquarium lights in my search for the best colour rendition, and one yet (the DIY Sunlike strips) yet to try.

I just want to add that I have heard people complain about off colours after buying an ADA, Chihiros, etc and installing it on their tank. Things like my Lemon Tetras look orange or red now instead of yellow like they should. The reason for this is the missing parts of the spectrum with these lights as seen in the spectral graphs.

Yes, I can agree with that to an extent, and has been my only complaint of these lights, but it still looks miles better than any white LED based light I've tried to date, and you can't say:

I think this is a perfect example of the artificiality that these lights offer and why they rub me the wrong way.

. . . if you haven't even seen one over your own tank? How can you say they rub you up the wrong way, and have such a strong opinion when you've never even tried one at home?

 

[FISHnLAB]

I don't think it proves anything. Did they all measure the change in PAR with the different light? I'd happily wager that if two lights are PAR matched with differing spectrums, you won't notice a jot of difference in aquarium plant growth once the plants are adapted in the context of a home aquarium. As I said before, there are far too many other factors that will have a far greater influence on growth.

Well, if you look at Terrestrial plants like Cannabis(what most of these lights are used for) there is definitely growth differences between different lights(even with matched PPFD). I don't know much about it but, the lights are constantly evolving with new types of emitters, UV, IR, etc and massive improvement has been made since the dawn of LED Grow lights. I don't see why aquatic plants would be any different but, I'm not a scientist to know for sure. Maybe Diana Walstad or the like can chime in on this.

Which two then if not ADA or Chihiros? I like it that you are getting your teeth into it, but you need to reserve judgement until you've seen a proper RGB light over your tank. I've got around 10 different aquarium lights in my search for the best colour rendition, and one yet (the DIY Sunlike strips) yet to try.

Nicrew RGB-W 24/7 and a Hygger. Yes, in house trail would be best but, I don't have thousands of dollars to waste, especially on poorly designed lights with ridiculous spectrums and hugely inflated price tags. I suspect they would just be even more exaggerated then my Nicrew which is the best off name aquarium light available in Amazon from my research. The main reason for this whole discussion is helping me pick a light for my new 90. I am trying to use a combination of others first hand experience and knowledge with my own knowledge of lighting mixed with experiments of actual aquatic plants. Honestly, I really don't care that much and might just cave and get a AI Prime FW or Chihiros but, I am a bit obsessive with getting the best I can for the money I want to spend and the inflated prices for poor spectrums has me obsessin lol. I'm not buying until black Friday as my new tank doesn't get here until the start of November so, I have time to kill learning and experimenting so to speak.

Yes, I can agree with that to an extent, and has been my only complaint of these lights, but it still looks miles better than any white LED based light I've tried to date,

I don't doubt that but, that may be because very few if any quality aquarium lights exist. That's why I am looking at other options. I would gladly pay $1000US for a light like the Fluval 3.0 with a world class spectrum and emitter selection. Unfortunately that appears to not exist... This may push me to building my own quantum board out of some of the emitters I listed above but, I have too much on my plate to get into that right now.

and you can't say:. . . if you haven't even seen one over your own tank? How can you say they rub you up the wrong way, and have such a strong opinion when you've never even tried one at home?

There are several videos on YouTube and forums comparing these lights side by side on the same screen. It isn't hard to see the differences and compare the similar ones(or same exact light) to the way mine looks in house. There are also written and video commentaries from people who have owned the same or similar light to mine and upgraded to a Chihiros or the like and describe the differences, pros, & cons. I admit it might not be as good as an in the house trail but, it is plenty good enough to see the differences imo. It doesn't always take first hand experience nowadays to know if something is right for you in my experience(the internet and high quality displays and testing equipment have helped this a lot).

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Well, if you look at Terrestrial plants like Cannabis(what most of these lights are used for)

<"Tomato" growing"> has had a few <"mentions on the forum">. I haven't had a look lately, but I think that the "grow your own" Tomato* growers have gone away from just using red and blue LEDS towards using more full spectrum "daylight" lamps?

*other plants may be available

cheers Darrel

 

[FISHnLAB]

Hi all,

<"Tomato" growing"> has had a few <"mentions on the forum">. I haven't had a look lately, but I think that the "grow your own" Tomato* growers have gone away from just using red and blue LEDS towards using more full spectrum "daylight" lamps?

*other plants may be available

cheers Darrel

Thanks for the links Darrel, they are interesting👍.

Yes, tomato growers may be a good source of information. Same with Cannabis growers, maybe even more so(with it legal in my country and many others now, you will likely see a ton of new lighting research and products released). What would be really nice is to find a Cannabis and/or tomato growing expert that is also obsessed with Aquatic plants and fish to mentor me. You never know, maybe this person exists in my small town lol...

 

[oreo57]

Until it does, the RGB LED's (with careful adjustment) give as close to it as we can get at the minute, despite the apparent 'peakiness' of their spectral response graph.

Any warm white/cool white containing light can achieve a "natural" look. As well as RGB/White or RGBA ect
"Normal" white leds have 2 weaknesses.. 1) Lack of power in the cyan range which btw RGB are also prone to this and 2) Low cri "cool" whites lack much in the way of red spectrum..
So technically any cool white plus red plus cyan (reg blue can substute a bit) can achieve a more "natural" spectrum than a RGB array.
Or a simple cw/ww array.
Fun with estimators. ONE catch CRI doesn't tell the whole story as to real color BUT that along with the spectrum tells a lot.
The yellow band in the "normal" leds (blue plus yellow = white) has a dulling effect on color. One of the reasons one color white arrays are dead to the aquarium world.
Well until someone puts "GOOD" whites in, like the CREE. I wouldn't hold my breath and besides people usually prefer a bit more punch than "natural". Or utilizing the led "power" of dimming/ramping with ease.
Keep in mind there are almost infinite combinations with multiple colored LED lights.

 

[oreo57]

One last one.. Sort of "state of the art" COB, not counting violet pump emitter styles.

https://www.bridgelux.com/sites/default/files/resource_media/DS405%20Bridgelux%20V4HD%20Thrive%20Array%20Rev%20B%2020210831.pdf

It's only competition is daylight..