Chihros or Twinstar

[Colin]

Hi

Looking at setting up a custom made tank in the near future size L82 X W55 X D55 cm.

It’s going to be low tech this time round but may add co2 at some point so looking for a LED light that I will be able to increase the output should I decide to add co2.

I have been looking at the Chihros WRGB 2 and the Twinstar range of lights.

The tank will be densely planted but with mostly easy plants.

Not a fan of dark corners so I do realise I may need 2 lights. The tank is an odd size but its fits the space available.

Any suggestions

Cheers

Col

 

[Krzysztof 82 (Kris)]

Hi Colin,

With the size of the tank it will be pretty difficult to find perfect light. Chihiros has got one 80cm long, but then you should consider hanging it pretty high to get illuminated width. Other and I think the best option would be ADA RGB Solar or Week Aqua A430 with the same design as the ADA, or Chihiros Vivid 2 which is cooled with one fan in the middle.
All of those have a power of 120W and would be suitable for a High Tech tank, where Week Aqua, Chihiros Vivid 2 can be controlled by the application as for colour spectrum and power too.
Another smaller option would be Chihiros Vivid mini with power of 70 or 75W which also can be controlled by the app regarding colour and power, with the cooling fan in the middle.

Good luck with the choice.

 

[oreo57]

Hi

Looking at setting up a custom made tank in the near future size L82 X W55 X D55 cm.

It’s going to be low tech this time round but may add co2 at some point so looking for a LED light that I will be able to increase the output should I decide to add co2.

I have been looking at the Chihros WRGB 2 and the Twinstar range of lights.

The tank will be densely planted but with mostly easy plants.

Not a fan of dark corners so I do realise I may need 2 lights. The tank is an odd size but its fits the space available.

Any suggestions

Cheers

Col

32x21.6x21.6
65 gallons all approx.
Ideally a light at 750mm is best
Since you mentioned a custom space first question is mounting.
Any room on the sides?
Can you hang lights?
Clearance above the tank?

Next. .$'s. Do you have a range you feel comfortable in?

Then " color". Current common lights are either RGB or R(G)BWhite.
Each has a different " look" at full.
Even amongst a class if say RGB lights they have overall output differences. Pink vs Blue-ish.

Now you have control and/or adjustability?
Need or want?

Last what is available to you?

I could probably suggest a dozen lights for you to look at that fail one criteria or another.
Like so ..
Popbloom t75 in a freshwater panel
This example is a reef version btw.
Pricing ect isn't different for a fw panel.
You would need to SHOP Popbloom since they can have different prices at different places.
Amazon product ASIN B0C8NY86VP
fw on ebay:

PopBloom LED Aquarium Light Full Spectrum Freshwater Aquarium Plant 36inchTank | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for PopBloom LED Aquarium Light Full Spectrum Freshwater Aquarium Plant 36inchTank at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[Colin]

Thanks for the replies,
I can raise the lights if I have to but it’s not my preferred option but it could be an option if it’s the only way.
There will be some space at the sides but only a couple of centimetres on each side.
It’s the reason why I thought I might need two smaller lights. Anuway, more food for thought
cheers
Col

 

[Mortis]

I was going to suggest 2X60cm Chihiros B series lights but the max width supported by them is 80cm. then I thought 3x45cm placed front to back but those top out at 50cm.
Looks like you might have to spring for the WRGB 2 Pro 80cm or devise a way to hang the other lights

 

[_Maq_]

Have you considered a DIY solution? You know, there's a lot of buzz about "optimized" lighting, and toying with the spectral composition, dimming, etc. I think these features are important for commercial plant nurseries because lighting is expensive and opting for advanced lighting suited precisely to plants' needs may be cost saving. For us, hobbyists, it's largely just toys. Ordinary and quite cheap LED bulbs will do the job perfectly fine.

 

[dino21]

Have you considered a DIY solution? You know, there's a lot of buzz about "optimized" lighting, and toying with the spectral composition, dimming, etc. I think these features are important for commercial plant nurseries because lighting is expensive and opting for advanced lighting suited precisely to plants' needs may be cost saving. For us, hobbyists, it's largely just toys. Ordinary and quite cheap LED bulbs will do the job perfectly fine.

Often thought about making our own diy led light unit though so many differing views on the subject as can be seen in this thread and other threads it points to -
DIY LED Full Spectrum Design
Any recommendations as to particular Uk/EU led bulbs or even the 1 or 3W White led stars for a diy project similar to those used in that thread, though on a smaller scale.

 

[oreo57]

Often thought about making our own diy led light unit though so many differing views on the subject as can be seen in this thread and other threads it points to -
DIY LED Full Spectrum Design
Any recommendations as to particular Uk/EU led bulbs or even the 1 or 3W White led stars for a diy project similar to those used in that thread, though on a smaller scale.

Actually its quite easy but it isn't always cost effective.
As to the "proper" or "best" spectrum, personally there really isn't one or enough data to declare one.
Below light for a 200gal tank. Over built as to wattage.
Diodes actually were one of the lesser costs AT the time.
Coralux Storm controller
Meanwell 48V 350W (est) power supply (the only reported failure was the fan inside it, replace fan back to normal.
Meanwell LDD-h drivers 5@1A 3 @ 500mA
Aluminum heat sinks.
90 degree REFLECTORS
Wire, incidentals
Probably never ran at 100% all channels.
My "design" not my tank.

for the sake of "color" tank after a redesign. Light raised a bit.

Pattern:

Cyan channel was left out due to a shipping error.
93 3w diodes ran under 3w each for the most part.
Whites may have been driven a bit harder, don't remember.
CORRECTION: were run at 1A and the V9f0 was around 2.8 sooo 2.8W
Used reflectors in place of lenses. Hard to find now and if you do, expensive in comparison to tir optics.
whites were sourced from ebay @about $1 each. Luxeon Rebels
Unfortunately those "deals" are long gone too.
Currently would probably cost over $300 for diodes.

The modern spectrum issues seem to revolve around UV and IR.
Rest is mostly cosmetics. (opinion)
UV probably has some benefits but may not be justifiable by cost or diode longevity.
You can get some of the advantages using higher # of rb photons or the somewhat more stable violets.
IR may only be beneficial at high light levels i.e approaching light saturation point.

 

[Krzysztof 82 (Kris)]

@oreo57

What do you think about Dennis Wong setup?

 

[oreo57]

@oreo57

What do you think about Dennis Wong setup?View attachment 211205View attachment 211206View attachment 211207

That's his specific choice to highlight red plants.
Beautiful but exaggerated.
Personal choice.
Good thing about diy you can target the diodes to maximize the look you prefer.
I had a discussion regarding the cri of his tank but at that low k the "reference sample" is a candle flame. Using different standards to judge it it is higher than bml reports.


Part of my philosophy involves setting 100%
at the k temp and cri one prefers but maintaining enough channels (colors) to shift a bit always trying to keep close to the 100% even if one doesn't utilize it.

My personal preference is the " gin clear" look with high color fidelity. Like the angelfish tank above.
If I pull a plant out and take it outside on an overcast noon sun it should look the same as what it looks like in the tank.
To be honest not the most popular choice.

Others prefer the punchy RGB look
Some warmer
Some colder
But it is all aesthetics, plants don't particularly care.

Modern LEDs measurements are ditching the cri one anyways.
R(f) and R(g) are the new kids on the block.
R( f) is color fidelity which his tank would score under 100. 100 being perfect. There is nothing past 100 only lower.
R( g) gamma is best described as the saturation
Both his tank and RGB tanks would most likely score >100. 100 being no deviation of colors from natural saturation.
<100 looks less saturated in some colors.
Soo for daylight a perfect score is 100, 100.

Studies on people's taste in color generally show a slight deviation from " perfection" is rated higher. In particular if in a warmer tone ( more saturated reds) or " pinker" like the old gro lux bulbs. In more technical terms below the bb locus a bit.

Sorry more info then most probably care about .....

 

[Krzysztof 82 (Kris)]

That's his specific choice to highlight red plants.
Beautiful but exaggerated.
Personal choice.
Good thing about diy you can target the diodes to maximize the look you prefer.
I had a discussion regarding the cri of his tank but at that low k the "reference sample" is a candle flame. Using different standards to judge it it is higher than bml reports.


Part of my philosophy involves setting 100%
at the k temp and cri one prefers but maintaining enough channels (colors) to shift a bit always trying to keep close to the 100% even if one doesn't utilize it.

My personal preference is the " gin clear" look with high color fidelity. Like the angelfish tank above.
If I pull a plant out and take it outside on an overcast noon sun it should look the same as what it looks like in the tank.
To be honest not the most popular choice.

Others prefer the punchy RGB look
Some warmer
Some colder
But it is all aesthetics, plants don't particularly care.

Modern LEDs measurements are ditching the cri one anyways.
R(f) and R(g) are the new kids on the block.
R( f) is color fidelity which his tank would score under 100. 100 being perfect. There is nothing past 100 only lower.
R( g) gamma is best described as the saturation
Both his tank and RGB tanks would most likely score >100. 100 being no deviation of colors from natural saturation.
Soo for daylight a perfect score is 100, 100.

Studies on people's taste in color generally show a slight deviation from " perfection" is rated higher. In particular if in a warmer tone ( more saturated reds) or " pinker" like the old gro lux bulbs. In more technical terms below the bb locus a bit.
View attachment 211215
Sorry more info then most probably care about .....

I do appreciate those information. Thank you.

 

[oreo57]

A bit more
A rough analysis of his light using D50 as the CRI standard.
A score of 89 isn't "low"
Averaged all the whites and came up around 4500K. This works but not exactly err perfect.
Used 4000k which probably pushed it a bit to the right over the BML average.
Actually they show, overall 3600k-ish. Odd I can't get it that low w/out screwing everything up.

Below the locus

The estimate is only an approximation but it is relatively close to the BML one.
It scores 78 CRI using the "A" standard (2856K) exactly like the BML measurement.

addendum: ONE thing as a DIY i'd never do is 1 diode over that much distance. If needed I'd use 3-4 and run them at 33 or 25%.
Second there is sort of a cultural difference.. Eastern prefers somewhat above the axis (see ADA preference to green. See their green tinted MH)

My last personal build.
3 660nm red
1 cyan
1Lime
1 PC Amber
1 Royal blue.

Ignore the double reflection. Broke my own rule. At 100% due to the 3 660s was not my "preferred" spectrum though it may be others.

I had another with 3 cyans. Too green.
The 3 reds were specifically chosen due to the low V(f). Each channel needed not to exceed a particular voltage in order to daisy chain enough pucks to fit easily available power supplies and driver constraints.
Finished pucks were 13W max each at 700mA
2.2 x 3 = 6.6v 6.6 x 6 =39.6 volts
Driver limit Input 56v output 52 v maximums.
48V in 44v out max.
So 6 "pucks" could be daisy chained using a 48V power supply
Even though 7 is only 46.2V the driver would take a 48V in and out max 44 volts.. in theory.
3 cyans were 2.7v x 3 =8.1V 5 pucks max.


No white diodes.
Luxeon Z chips. 1.3x 1.7mm in size.. tiny.

Overall cost/ light unit (no controller/housing) was $46 for 13 watts.
$3.50/watt which, honestly isn't unreasonable compared to current inflated prices for PREMIUM "parts" BUT not after retail markup
Certainly not economically viable..

 

[Mortis]

Actually its quite easy but it isn't always cost effective.
As to the "proper" or "best" spectrum, personally there really isn't one or enough data to declare one.
Below light for a 200gal tank. Over built as to wattage.
Diodes actually were one of the lesser costs AT the time.
Coralux Storm controller
Meanwell 48V 350W (est) power supply (the only reported failure was the fan inside it, replace fan back to normal.
Meanwell LDD-h drivers 5@1A 3 @ 500mA
Aluminum heat sinks.
90 degree REFLECTORS
Wire, incidentals
Probably never ran at 100% all channels.
My "design" not my tank.
View attachment 211202

for the sake of "color" tank after a redesign. Light raised a bit.
View attachment 211203
Pattern:
View attachment 211204

Cyan channel was left out due to a shipping error.
93 3w diodes ran under 3w each for the most part.
Whites may have been driven a bit harder, don't remember.
CORRECTION: were run at 1A and the V9f0 was around 2.8 sooo 2.8W
Used reflectors in place of lenses. Hard to find now and if you do, expensive in comparison to tir optics.
whites were sourced from ebay @about $1 each. Luxeon Rebels
Unfortunately those "deals" are long gone too.
Currently would probably cost over $300 for diodes.

The modern spectrum issues seem to revolve around UV and IR.
Rest is mostly cosmetics. (opinion)
UV probably has some benefits but may not be justifiable by cost or diode longevity.
You can get some of the advantages using higher # of rb photons or the somewhat more stable violets.
IR may only be beneficial at high light levels i.e approaching light saturation point.

Nice. Kind of similar to my DIY light in layout except I just used a few basic R, G and B along with my mixed K whites.

@Colin Might I suggest looking at the MakersLED set ? Its good stuff although some bits are expensive. The main thing is the Driver/Controller which supports 5 channels for a total of 70 LEDs so you can have 14 LEDs in 5 channels. The first and last can be used for mixed K whites and you can have a separate channel each for R, G and B. Within these you can mix shades and complimentary colours of each to get a really robust spectrum and colour rendition which you can tweak by dimming the channels individually - basically what the professional WRGB lights do via their app

 

[Krzysztof 82 (Kris)]

A bit more
A rough analysis of his light using D50 as the CRI standard.
A score of 89 isn't "low"
Averaged all the whites and came up around 4500K. This works but not exactly err perfect.
Used 4000k which probably pushed it a bit to the right over the BML average.
Actually they show, overall 3600k-ish. Odd I can't get it that low w/out screwing everything up.
View attachment 211216
Below the locus
View attachment 211217

The estimate is only an approximation but it is relatively close to the BML one.
It scores 78 CRI using the "A" standard (2856K) exactly like the BML measurement.

addendum: ONE thing as a DIY i'd never do is 1 diode over that much distance. If needed I'd use 3-4 and run them at 33 or 25%.
Second there is sort of a cultural difference.. Eastern prefers somewhat above the axis (see ADA preference to green. See their green tinted MH)

My last personal build.
3 660nm red
1 cyan
1Lime
1 PC Amber
1 Royal blue.
View attachment 211221
Ignore the double reflection. Broke my own rule. At 100% due to the 3 660s was not my "preferred" spectrum though it may be others.
View attachment 211222
I had another with 3 cyans. Too green.
The 3 reds were specifically chosen due to the low V(f). Each channel needed not to exceed a particular voltage in order to daisy chain enough pucks to fit easily available power supplies and driver constraints.
Finished pucks were 13W max each at 700mA
2.2 x 3 = 6.6v 6.6 x 6 =39.6 volts
Driver limit Input 56v output 52 v maximums.
48V in 44v out max.
So 6 "pucks" could be daisy chained using a 48V power supply
Even though 7 is only 46.2V the driver would take a 48V in and out max 44 volts.. in theory.
3 cyans were 2.7v x 3 =8.1V 5 pucks max.


No white diodes.
Luxeon Z chips. 1.3x 1.7mm in size.. tiny.

Overall cost/ light unit (no controller/housing) was $46 for 13 watts.
$3.50/watt which, honestly isn't unreasonable compared to current inflated prices for PREMIUM "parts" BUT not after retail markup
Certainly not economically viable..




View attachment 211223

Ok, that's a black magic for me.

 

[Grjones]

I love the chirios backlights on the rear of the tank. Better than ADA so the info above it helpful to me in choosing my next light