Classic mistake of incorrectly place plants!

[Null Zero]

I don't think Pinnatifida is particularly difficult to grow - give it CO2 and it grows like a weed. I have in my tank and it grows faster than anything else in there. I even put some cuttings in my low light/low tech tank, and they're growing fast in there too, and that is very hard water and minimal ferts.

There are a fair few tanks on here that have loads of Pinna growth in hard water:

AS900- restart and rethink.

Tank is looking great and the shrimp coming on great, i need to trim my moss ass its getting very thick so think i will trim and glue on further down Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

www.ukaps.org

Channelling my inner Filipe - Christmas Corys

Wow Sammy it has really taken shape looks good Looking good. Looks great, taken shape really nicely. Stunning, love this tank :) great job Thanks guys! Finally coming together, really happy with it at the moment! Really hoping the MC grows this time! I'll leave you with another photo of...

www.ukaps.org

Blyxa Japonica on the other hand is a tricky plant to grow well, and that is fantastic lush growth on those plants @papa_c - is that a Cork Screw Sword (Helanthium Bolivianum 'Vesuvius') on the right hand side? It looks great.

​

Thanks... For some reason, I simply cannot grow H. pinnatifida, no matter what I do. High tech, low tech, high light, low light, rich substrate, high CO2.. Nothing works for me with this plant. My water is super hard though, with significant calcium residue on the glass on evaporation. I can literally harvest CaCO3 from my water if I want! Very calcium rich water but deficient in Mg, which adds to my woes. I need to dose copious amounts of MgSO4 just to ensure my plants get enough Fe. Hard water means I have to use Fe- EDDHA as my main Fe source. On the plus side, Vals grow like there is no tomorrow in my tank! I literally have to keep trimming and removing larger leaves to ensure the tank is not choked. I have also grown some really uncommon plants like Centella asiatica (Asiatic Pennywort) really well, probably because they like hard water.

However, going by anecdotal evidence, it is definitely easier to grow this in softer water with generous NPK fertilization regimes. I have also read elsewhere that this plant grows better as an epiphyte as opposed to being planted in the substrate like other Hygro varieties.

Great to see HP grow well in hard water, gives me hope that one day i will be able to grow a jungle of the stuff.

In my experience, certain plants are way easier to grow in soft water. A friend of mine has a small 20 gallon tank where he uses RO+UV treated water and he is able to grow plants like Eriocaulons, Toninas, Syngonathus without CO2 in a non enriched substrate. These plants do not last a week in my tank.

 

[Wookii]

Thanks... For some reason, I simply cannot grow H. pinnatifida, no matter what I do. High tech, low tech, high light, low light, rich substrate, high CO2.. Nothing works for me with this plant. My water is super hard though, with significant calcium residue on the glass on evaporation. I can literally harvest CaCO3 from my water if I want! Very calcium rich water but deficient in Mg, which adds to my woes. I need to dose copious amounts of MgSO4 just to ensure my plants get enough Fe. Hard water means I have to use Fe- EDDHA as my main Fe source. On the plus side, Vals grow like there is no tomorrow in my tank! I literally have to keep trimming and removing larger leaves to ensure the tank is not choked. I have also grown some really uncommon plants like Centella asiatica (Asiatic Pennywort) really well, probably because they like hard water.

Sorry to hear you're having problems growing it - what TDS is your water coming out at? If you don't have access to RO, are you not able to harvest rainwater and cut it with your tap water? Also, are you dosing full EI?

Have you tried growing it out from cuttings from an established plants from someone elses tank? I have read that is doesn't grow very well in low tech, but the cuttings I transferred to my hard water low tech tank were good thick established stems from my high tech - so that could be why they have continued to do well. I'm not sure if I had used in-vitro plants, or emersed grown plants that had to transition, straight into the low tech, that they would have done so well.

However, going by anecdotal evidence, it is definitely easier to grow this in softer water with generous NPK fertilization regimes. I have also read elsewhere that this plant grows better as an epiphyte as opposed to being planted in the substrate like other Hygro varieties.

Great to see HP grow well in hard water, gives me hope that one day i will be able to grow a jungle of the stuff.

In my experience, certain plants are way easier to grow in soft water. A friend of mine has a small 20 gallon tank where he uses RO+UV treated water and he is able to grow plants like Eriocaulons, Toninas, Syngonathus without CO2 in a non enriched substrate. These plants do not last a week in my tank.

I agree, soft water definitely seems to help. Although a lot of people have great tanks in hard water, and the vast majority of plants seem to do fine in hard water, soft water always appears to make things a little easier for the aquarist from my casual observations - particularly with the chelation issues you mention. You have listed three good examples of plants that definitely do better in soft water. I've only ever attempted Tonina, and the stems either melted in short order or sat there in relative stasis. Those soft water stems are fairly easy to substitute for other more tolerant plants ones though.

 

[Null Zero]

Sorry to hear you're having problems growing it - what TDS is your water coming out at? If you don't have access to RO, are you not able to harvest rainwater and cut it with your tap water? Also, are you dosing full EI?

Have you tried growing it out from cuttings from an established plants from someone elses tank? I have read that is doesn't grow very well in low tech, but the cuttings I transferred to my hard water low tech tank were good thick established stems from my high tech - so that could be why they have continued to do well. I'm not sure if I had used in-vitro plants, or emersed grown plants that had to transition, straight into the low tech, that they would have done so well.



I agree, soft water definitely seems to help. Although a lot of people have great tanks in hard water, and the vast majority of plants seem to do fine in hard water, soft water always appears to make things a little easier for the aquarist from my casual observations - particularly with the chelation issues you mention. You have listed three good examples of plants that definitely do better in soft water. I've only ever attempted Tonina, and the stems either melted in short order or sat there in relative stasis. Those soft water stems are fairly easy to substitute for other more tolerant plants ones though.

TDS varies between 100-120 in the tank after a few days post a water change, but is around 150 off the tap (Municipal Supply Water). I do have access to an RO unit for drinking water, but i find it a bit hard to justify the volumes of wasted water, given the fact that I work in the sustainability sector. Rainwater is not possible in this season, plus New Delhi - where i am currently based - is super polluted so even during the monsoons collecting rainwater is a pretty risky proposition!

Most of the H.pinnatifida i have attempted have been emersed specimens grown terrestrially in soil. Commercial ornamental plant nurseries here grow almost all of their plants emersed (except pure aquatics like Vals, Cabombas, Ceratophyllums, Floaters etc) due to much faster growth rates and resilience during shipping, so the transition happens inside the tank. Mostly the HP i have tried does manage to transition but eventually gets holes and withers away. Perhaps if I attempt to procure some submerged specimens from fellow hobbyists, I might fare better. It does grow natively here in India, not in the Northern parts of the country though.

Yep Toninas and Eriocaulons rarely last in hard water. They come from extremely acidic environments, as low as 3 to 3.5 PH with almost zero minerals in the water. So pretty too. Also cannot grow many Rotalas well due to the same reason.

 

[Wookii]

TDS varies between 100-120 in the tank after a few days post a water change, but is around 150 off the tap (Municipal Supply Water). I do have access to an RO unit for drinking water, but i find it a bit hard to justify the volumes of wasted water, given the fact that I work in the sustainability sector. Rainwater is not possible in this season, plus New Delhi - where i am currently based - is super polluted so even during the monsoons collecting rainwater is a pretty risky proposition!

I would suggest your tap water isn't particularly hard then if those values are correct, it's a lot softer than most. To give you an idea, my tap water (which varies in hardness throughout the year) currently comes out of the tap at 275ppm. My high tech, which uses RO but is being buffered (annoyingly) by loads of CaCO3 from the Seiryu stone, averages 200ppm.

Most of the H.pinnatifida i have attempted have been emersed specimens grown terrestrially in soil. Commercial ornamental plant nurseries here grow almost all of their plants emersed (except pure aquatics like Vals, Cabombas, Ceratophyllums, Floaters etc) due to much faster growth rates and resilience during shipping, so the transition happens inside the tank. Mostly the HP i have tried does manage to transition but eventually gets holes and withers away. Perhaps if I attempt to procure some submerged specimens from fellow hobbyists, I might fare better. It does grow natively here in India, not in the Northern parts of the country though.

I'm going to go out on a limb and wager that your issues are fert related. What is your dosing regime?

Yep Toninas and Eriocaulons rarely last in hard water. They come from extremely acidic environments, as low as 3 to 3.5 PH with almost zero minerals in the water. So pretty too. Also cannot grow many Rotalas well due to the same reason.

You really shouldn't be having issues with the more common Rotala's - they seem to do fine in hard water - many examples on this forum. Which ones have you struggled with?

EDIT: Apologies to @papa_c for taking this thread off at a tangent. It might be worth you starting a thread @Null Zero - there are lots of knowledgeable people on this forum, more experienced than me that should be able to help you via a dedicated thread if you post up all your tank details.

 

[Doug]

I used to be anal about religiously testing my water and then I stopped a couple of years ago...

I know go on how the plants are looking and growing, how the fish are behaving/ eat , cleanliness of water etc. Seems to work for me.

I have good filtration, 50% water change every week, use tap water ( with aqua safe, CO2 injection and daily ferts regime.

 

[papa_c]

Apologies to @papa_c for taking this thread

No problem at all, it's a community forum so there is no monopoly on ownership!

 

[Paulthewitt]

That blyxa looks amazing - if you need to get rid of any, let me know - I would be very happy to pay postage plus a little to get some healthy and grown plants. I also had some ropey blyxa from 1-2 grow. But i think it is just too far gone. Even if not, only maybe 3 plants from 2 pots remain... so I have little hope of getting the impact I was after.

 

[Magoo]

I've never had success with H. pinnatifida planted in the substrate that being said it grows like a weed when I plant it like an epiphyte.

 

[papa_c]

Time for another pruning session, previously tidied up the Blyxa cuttings which are currently growing out in a separate 30cm cube, it is amazing the root structure they put out.

H. Vesuvius is growing crazy and there will be plenty trimmings available aftwards. Little bit of BBA on the slow growing Buces will tackle that with a bit of Glute spot dosing.

Trying to get on top green thread algae, only way I am beating it is to remove as much as possible pre water change, and dose AlgExit after water change. Nothing else seems to put a dent in it.

 

[papa_c]

Mini Christmas moss could do with a hair cut, but I'm not sure what else is growing in there!

 

[Andy Pierce]

I currently does EI to the following:
NO3 30ppm
K 65ppm
PO4 15ppm

Your tank looks amazing! For your EI scheme, are these your weekly targets and if so are you splitting these over 3 doses per week? Are you doing 50% weekly water changes? I ask because 65ppm K is well over EI targets I've seen elsewhere as is the 15ppm PO4. Not that I ever argue with the scoreboard because success speaks for itself, but I would like to understand how you decided to aim for these values.

 

[papa_c]

I've been tinkering with the weekly ppm since posting that. I had a tank full of H.pinatifidia and was dosing that to stop pin holes in older leaves. This has all been stripped out and my current dosing levels are below macros and micros alternate days 3 times a week each

I don't dose any Magnesium in the mixture as I add this all at water change time. Water change is RO water remineralised to CA 35pm and Mg to 14 ppm. Religiously changing about 75% weekly without fail. Concentrating on getting as much debris from the substrate, it is crazy how much accumulates on a weekly basis.