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Converting an Emersed tank to a Submersed tank.

Err..hello, Earth calling ukco2guy....is there a good reason for not doing a blackout? Light causes algae, therefore lack of light kills algae.

If you have access to antibiotics such as erythromycin then you can kill it that way. Although many frown on it's use it is extremely effective. BGA is actually a bacteria, not an algae.

Cheers,
 
Hi Clive,

No real reason, i know i`m probably making life harder than it needs be but i thought i would try and fight the issue a little longer with the recent recommendations. I will get large water change/clean out done, a high dose of my macros , turn the co2 off and then get it covered. I worry about the Eleocharis, will i be at risk if i pull all that out and put it in my other 4ft tank? I also wonder if my dose of KNO3 is high enough, i`m adding 5tsp KNO3 and 3.5tsp KH2PO4 to 500ml and dosing 3x per week @ 40ml. Should i raise that amount say to 6tsp before the blackout tonight?

Cheers,
 
Well, Eleocharis is more at risk of being consumed by BGA, so the blackout is the lesser of evils. Forget about pulling things out. Just get on with it. Afterward, the plant will recover when you resume CO2, flow and proper dosing. Just double the dosage to make life simple. You are thinking too much and this is paralyzing you. When you suffer an algal bloom speed is of the essence.

Cheers,
 
Ok mate, it will be done tonight! I`ll perform as above and you keep posted.

Cheers,
 
Hi,

Cleaned out, dosed heavily and bagged up like a Christmas pudding :) Fingers crossed this will the only time i need to do it :)



Cheers,
 
Hi,

Well i`m almost though the 4 day blackout. Can you any of you guys share some tips on how i get it back? e.g. lighting, dosing, co2 etc. I will be uncovering the tank tomorrow and performing a 50-60% water change, getting the co2 up to 3b/s and dosing KNO3 straight away after the water change. Hopefully most of the BGA has died down, i`d like some advise on how to go about this?

Cheers,
 
Do exactly what you just stated mate. Clean the tank out really well, using plenty of elbow grease, even a 70%-90% water change isn't over the top to get all the gunk out. Return the CO2 to previous levels or higher if possible. Dose double what you were dosing prior and see how it goes.

Cheers,
 
Hi,

Update :)

Well after removing the cover the tank looked spotless (well compared to before), the HC has taken a bit of a hit but i`m hoping it will grow back in time. The glass was very clean but i cleaned it and the substrate, plants etc then performed a 90% water change. For the last week i have dosed double on the ferts and CO2 is higher than average. I also took the time to re-scape slightly and have introduced some moss, eleocharis and some more staruogyne sp. All has been well for the last week until this evening! Come back from work tonight and it`s extremely cloudy. I have checked the filter and that`s all ok. I think it`s a spike but i don`t want to perform any more large water changes as i worry if it`ll just cause another spike? I have included the usual pics below, take a look and let me know what you think chaps?

After Blackout:



This evening (1 week after blackout):



Cheers,
 
Ok cool. Same as before then mate... Any ideas on what might have caused it? Filter i thought would have been matured already. I`m guessing it`s a cycle of some kind?

Cheers,
 
There are bacteria that feed on anything you can imagine. Could have been decaying bodies of the dead algae triggering a bloom which took a week to incubate and grow full scale population. Could have been something introduce when you added new plants. Difficult to say. These bacteria may not be nitrifying types. Sometimes they persist for weeks.

Cheers,
 
Err...are we reading the same thread? :? What does dry start have to do with any of the problems discussed? The OP's problems started after he flooded the tank, so this would be like blaming your car for causing a car accident.

The OP incurred the same faults that many others incur when starting a tank; too much light, poor understanding of flow and distribution, poor CO2 and lazy dosing. Dry Start Method cannot save you from inattentiveness and it is likely that he would have incurred many more problems had he not implemented the DSM.

Cheers,
 
I do blame my car.

Seriously though, have been wondering about this.

Does HC need different leaves underwater? If so, does it all need to die back and regrow once you flood it? If so, what's the benefit in dry start?

Does stauro do the same? In my experience emersed leaves die off once you plant under water, and new growth is healthy. So again, what's the benefit?
 
Yep, virtually every plant needs to change out the leaves when submerged. Leaves that functioned perfectly in open air are very inefficient underwater, so flooding a tank traumatizes every plant for reasons described in the thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16038

However, when you experience massive die off of leaves after flooding, then that normally is a strong indicator that your flow/distribution and CO2 are fundamentally weak and that probably your lighting is too high at that stage of the tanks development. I grow both HC and Staurogyne and I don't have these problems after flooding. The HC will usually just sit there doing nothing for a few weeks and then will become active. I don't use nearly the amount of light intensity at this point as I will much, much later on. People just can't wait to throw photon bombs at their plants before they are ready, and when the leaves start to fall off they blame it on lack of light, causing further mayhem.

The real reason DSM is employed is that the amount of time that the sediment is moist encourages bacterial action and maturation of the sediment. That way, when the tank is flooded then it is practically cycled. People fret all the time about whether the tank is cycled, not understanding that the bacterial population of their sediment is as equally important as the bacterial population of the filter media. DSM mineralizes the ammonia in the sediment and grows huge nitrifying bacterial populations without the penalty of algal blooms. This is especially important for those who use sediments rich in organic content and for those who use Aquasoil Amazonia and the Oliver Knott equivalent as these sediments are high in ammonia. If you flood the tank immediately these soils will leach ammonia into the water column, but DSM prevents this from happening by developing the bacterial populations in the sediment which then convert the ammonia. When you flood a DSM tank that uses Amazonia you will not have this problem of leaching ammonia. Many of the algae problems that we incur at tank startup is a result of unstable ammonia production in the sediment and DSM solves this.

The secondary benefit of DSM is that it gives you time for the plants to grow roots into the sediment. How many times have you painstakingly planted your tank only to see your plants floating around after you flood? Isn't that annoying? Well, plants living in DSM grow roots which gives them mechanical stability in the tank. They also are able to increase their mass more easily because they have access to atmospheric CO2, so you don't have to buy as many, because you essentially are propagating the plants insitu.

Having said all that, if you then flood the tank and make the same mistakes in terms of lighting, CO2 and flow/distribution then you will have problems caused by excessive lighting, and poor CO2/flow/distribution. You still have to follow the correct procedures.

Hope this clarifies.

Cheers,
 
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