Creepy Hollow

[Wookii]

You could use the standard dose of 1ml (per 10 litres), but as per @Zeus.’s table above, EI levels are reached at about 5ml per 10 litres, so I personally would double up and maybe do 2ml per 10 litres to start with and see how you go.

Your tap water will be giving you some elements too, so if you are planning on a decent weekly water change, that will help too.

Be aware that lots of people dose a lot less on low tech tanks though, so don’t take the above as gospel - I just personally prefer a system that removes as many variables for me as possible, so dosing EI (though a reduced version) on my low tech, in combination with lots of water changes, works for me, and takes some of the thinking out of it.

 

[Kogre]

Thanks for the response, @Wookii. I find it odd that all the mentionings of EI don't qualify themselves to lean towards CO2 injected systems, so I'm glad I asked. The dry ferts arrived this morning but I won't open them until I've exhausted the TNC Complete and will dose as you suggested once the plants are in.

Interestingly, I'm not sure why but I think my cycle seems to have stalled. The nitrites aren't rising and neither are the nitrates. It might be premature of me to expect any changes at this stage.

 

[Wookii]

I wouldn’t worry about your cycling, and I certainly wouldn’t bother too much about measuring nitrates. In fact don’t bother measuring anything until you reach the point of adding livestock. Only then will you need to worry about checking ammonia and nitrite levels, and by that point I doubt there’ll be any anyway.

Just get it planted, keep on top of ferts dosing and water changes, and enjoy watching the plants start to grow.

Given you have four Primes over the tank, you’re going to have to be careful of light intensity without CO2 injection, if you want to avoid algae - even at your planned levels of 40%. Some floating plants will really help that, so I can certainly send you some when your plant order is due to arrive - just let me know.

 

[Kogre]

You are a star. Thank you.

I actually started off with three of the lights but because of the jank left behind from the evaporation covers, had to change the layout due to where the glass crossbars were placed. I even had to use a janky solution to use the tank mounts for the lights. I'll take pictures of that and post in due course.

Also, I'm not leaning heavily towards it but have been looking into CO2 to see whether it is something I am able to cost in. While I'm still on the fence about it all, I have been drawing a blank as to why there aren't any affordable all in one systems that may be attractive to newbies like myself. I guess it's still pretty specialist...

 

[Kogre]

I've taken a stab at identifying the epiphyte plants amongst what I have, but if anyone could confirm whether I've ballsed up or not, that would be great:

Cryptocoryne beckettii 'Petchii'
Ludwigia palustris
Vallisneria spiralis 'Tiger'
Vallisneria americana gigantea
Bucephalandra pygmaea 'Wavy Green' epiphytes
Microsorum pteropus 'Trident' epiphytes
Microsorum pteropus 'Narrow' epiphytes
Anubias barteri var. caladiifolia epiphytes
Anubias barteria var. barteri epiphytes
Staurogyne repens
Sagittaria subulata
Echinodorus grisebachii 'Bleherae'
Echinodorus 'Ozelot'
Echinodorus 'Reni'
Java Moss
Nymphaea lotus (zenkeri)

 

[Wookii]

Also, I'm not leaning heavily towards it but have been looking into CO2 to see whether it is something I am able to cost in. While I'm still on the fence about it all, I have been drawing a blank as to why there aren't any affordable all in one systems that may be attractive to newbies like myself. I guess it's still pretty specialist...

Hmmm . . . it’s a tricky one. An 800 litre tank will require a lot of gas, it’s also a very deep tank to be doing lots of cutting and replanting on a weekly basis as is often required in a high light CO2 setup.

It’s entirely your choice ofcourse, but if it were mine, I would plan to run it as a low tech in terms of plant choices, dosing and light levels. Then if you choose to add CO2, at a lower level (say 10-15ppm) it will most certainly help with plant growth but without being a full “pedal to the metal” high light, 30ppm CO2 setup.

 

[Kogre]

Thank you for the input as always mate.

That makes more sense. I thought if a disaster happens in this tank I'd prefer for it to happen in slow motion rather than to accelerate it with gas. I'd prefer the slower growth so I don't need to have my hands in the tank so often.

Ultimately, maintenance wise, I don't mind doing 50% water changes a couple of times a week. It will end up being straight from tap so will be interesting to see how the plants react once they're in.

I have no idea when it comes to plant choice being not-very-demanding. If I have plants on my list that are highly demanding could you let me know? I picked it from a suggested Tropica layout that had the rating as easy so I can't imagine anything being too demanding, but you never do know...

 

[Zeus.]

it’s also a very deep tank to be doing lots of cutting and replanting on a weekly basis as is often required

+1👍
With a tank your size the height of the tank on the based with the bracing will make maintenance very difficult unless your about 7 foot tall. I got a 60x24x24 braced tank from ND aquatics and struggle to reach the substrate level at times and I am 5ft 10in, so you may have the same issue esp if its 30 inches high.

Yes you can use long pincetes as I do (300mm) but your heads at the top of the tank when your pincetes are at the bottom, so hand eye coordination can get tricky some times.

Otherwise you will be joining the 'Crazy club' which @Filip Krupa is a member off 🤣 (no offence to Filip 😉 as he has done wonders with his 2,000l High Tech Beast, which has been a joy to follow )

Joking apart, the deeper tanks get tricky.

 

[Filip Krupa]

+1👍
With a tank your size the height of the tank on the based with the bracing will make maintenance very difficult unless your about 7 foot tall. I got a 60x24x24 braced tank from ND aquatics and struggle to reach the substrate level at times and I am 5ft 10in, so you may have the same issue esp if its 30 inches high.

Yes you can use long pincetes as I do (300mm) but your heads at the top of the tank when your pincetes are at the bottom, so hand eye coordination can get tricky some times.

Otherwise you will be joining the 'Crazy club' which @Filip Krupa is a member off 🤣 (no offence to Filip 😉 as he has done wonders with his 2,000l High Tech Beast, which has been a joy to follow )
View attachment 164761

Joking apart, the deeper tanks get tricky.

Please please join my crazy club @Kogre !!! Its a lonely place at the moment 🤣

Btw, when I have a ton of trimming to do, I just get in, squat in the middle with my mask and breathing tube and get hacking. No joke 🤣

 

[Filip Krupa]

Nice size and shape tank youve got there!
Drop me a line if youre struggling with anything, chances are Ive been there!

Fil

 

[Conort2]

Sounds like a great well thought out plan! In regards to your planting I’ve seen you’ve added staurogyne. If you’re not using co2 you may struggle with this one. And you need a lot of pots! So would hate to see you waste your money on them. Maybe try a few pots first to see how it goes? has anyone else on here managed with it low tech? Microsorum trident is also another one I struggle with without the addition of co2, it’s classed as an easy plant but I find it prefers high tech conditions to get going.

anyone else had similar issues with these two or can they be grown low tech easily?

cheers

 

[Courtneybst]

Sounds like a great well thought out plan! In regards to your planting I’ve seen you’ve added staurogyne. If you’re not using co2 you may struggle with this one. And you need a lot of pots! So would hate to see you waste your money on them. Maybe try a few pots first to see how it goes? has anyone else on here managed with it low tech? Microsorum trident is also another one I struggle with without the addition of co2, it’s classed as an easy plant but I find it prefers high tech conditions to get going.

anyone else had similar issues with these two or can they be grown low tech easily?

cheers

I've grown Staurogyne Repens in non CO2 and it grew really well. Was able to spread it out very easily.

I'm also growing Trident fern in my current setup, it's only been 2 weeks but it looks healthy, it's growing (slowly). The parts that are more shaded are a bit thinner so it clearly likes more light than your average Java fern.

 

[Wookii]

@Kogre I had a trimming and tidy up session on my high tech yesterday, so as promised I’ve put together a good sized tub for you of Amazon Frogbit and Red Root Floaters. I’ll get them sent out tomorrow.

These won’t cover a lot of your surface given your tank size, but with decent ferts levels they spread rapidly.

I don’t know when your main plant order is due to arrive, but if these arrive ahead of the other plants you should be okay to just keep them in a tray or bucket of water in a spot that gets a decent amount of daylight until you’re ready for them.

 

[Kogre]

Woah that's so nice of you, thank you @Wookii

I'm not sure when the plants will get here, I was told it could take weeks due to coronavirus and Brexit. I don't mind the wait.

Thanks once again!

 

[Kogre]

Looks like I'll be receiving my plants in three batches. I have to wait for the Microsorum pteropus 'Trident' and there may have been something else I had to wait on, but the Anubias barteria var. barteri have been replaced with nana as the (believe it or not) var. barteri are discontinued. So the order I've placed with Birstall will arrive in two lots at least and the items they couldn't sell due to them being discontinued or unavailable such as the Vallisneria I'll need to order off of ebay. I may just order the Vall and moss, plant those when they get here and then begin planting when everything else turns up. Not the way I wanted to go about planting the aquarium out but it doesn't look like I'll have a choice if the Birstall lot arrives in two batches anyway. Is there a downside to partially planting over time (a period of perhaps up to three weeks)?

@Wookii the floaters arrived as I was typing this post, many thanks for this supply. I might just throw them into the tank and turn the lights on low (10%) unless that is unadvisable.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I might just throw them into the tank and turn the lights on low (10%) unless that is unadvisable.

Put them in the tank, but turn <"the lights up so that they are fairly bright">. Because they are floating plants they aren't CO2 limited, but if they don't get enough light to get <"above LCP"> they will be dying, rather than growing, and that isn't going to help.

I know @Wookii is a "Frogbit whisperer" and has done wonders with the poor plants he got <"from a fairly dodgy supplier">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Wookii]

Looks like I'll be receiving my plants in three batches. I have to wait for the Microsorum pteropus 'Trident' and there may have been something else I had to wait on, but the Anubias barteria var. barteri have been replaced with nana as the (believe it or not) var. barteri are discontinued. So the order I've placed with Birstall will arrive in two lots at least and the items they couldn't sell due to them being discontinued or unavailable such as the Vallisneria I'll need to order off of ebay. I may just order the Vall and moss, plant those when they get here and then begin planting when everything else turns up. Not the way I wanted to go about planting the aquarium out but it doesn't look like I'll have a choice if the Birstall lot arrives in two batches anyway. Is there a downside to partially planting over time (a period of perhaps up to three weeks)?

@Wookii the floaters arrived as I was typing this post, many thanks for this supply. I might just throw them into the tank and turn the lights on low (10%) unless that is unadvisable.

I'm glad the floaters have arrived. You could add them to the tank, but I would find a way to keep them at one end (a bit of airline tubing floating across the the surface attached to front and rear glass for example) and just turn one light on low (probably a bit more than 10% though).

I think as your tank will not have CO2 injection, as long as you don't crank you lights up too high you should be fine adding your plants in batches - but you should add some ferts straight away. I might be inclined to go for a shorter photoperiod (say 6-8 hours) while only partially planted. The most difficult to plant are the epiphytes and mosses, and you may need to drain the tank, or remove the hardscape they are being attached to, when adding those. For the moss I would recommend whipping it on with fishing line rather than gluing it, but gluing will work best for the other epiphytes unless you can find some gaps to physically wedge them in until they self attach.

When the tridents arrive, you might be able to avoid having to drain the tank again if you pre-attach them to some bits of rock (lava rock works well) to anchor them down, and just place them in position - or wedge them into gaps you have left for them.

For the other plants that require planting in the substrate, you should be good to just plant them straight in where you want them, as soon as you receive them.

Once everything is in, you can then set you lights to whatever your target output and photoperiod.

 

[Wookii]

I know @Wookii is a "Frogbit whisperer" and has done wonders with the poor plants he got <"from a fairly dodgy supplier">.

cheers Darrel

lol Darrel - I think the fact that those giant frogbit got that way in the tank I do virtually nothing to from one month to the next says more about the quality of the Frogbit supplied than my whispering skills 😂

 

[Kogre]

I ordered Vallisneria off of ebay yesterday and the delivery date was towards the tail end of next week. They turned up this morning so I ended up just getting them into the tank.

There were some really awkward places around the pieces of wood on the right but I managed to get it all in. I had originally graduated the height with the smaller pieces being on the right but as a few went rogue after I filled the tank again, I decided to plant them on the flanks which was the easiest to get to. A little is also creeping under the branch and I don't like that, but I realise it'll be planted in front of hopefully in a weeks time so that'll become a lot less visible.

I had forgotten to dechlorinate before turning my filters back on (I normally do this prior to turning the taps on to refill). Oops. 🤫

 

[Wookii]

I ordered Vallisneria off of ebay yesterday and the delivery date was towards the tail end of next week. They turned up this morning so I ended up just getting them into the tank.

There were some really awkward places around the pieces of wood on the right but I managed to get it all in. I had originally graduated the height with the smaller pieces being on the right but as a few went rogue after I filled the tank again, I decided to plant them on the flanks which was the easiest to get to. A little is also creeping under the branch and I don't like that, but I realise it'll be planted in front of hopefully in a weeks time so that'll become a lot less visible.

I had forgotten to dechlorinate before turning my filters back on (I normally do this prior to turning the taps on to refill). Oops. 🤫

Nice one! It looks good already - I do like a grassy back drop to a tank! Here's an ADA one I really like:




Where have the spray bars gone though?

You could really do with those return pipes being all the way down to the substrate - it'll help draw settling detritus into your filter and also circulate water to the substrate level. Once of the challenges you're going to have with such a deep tank is getting flow right down to the bottom of it.

I had forgotten to dechlorinate before turning my filters back on (I normally do this prior to turning the taps on to refill). Oops. 🤫

You should be alright as long as you added some dechlorinator for the tank volume, straight away.