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Cruelty - Bettas

Nat N

Nat N

Member
Joined
28 Dec 2011
Messages
120
Hi all,
I thought I post this here as this is the best forum I know... Yesterday I was looking throught things on Ebay and discovered that some seller was offering a betta in a jar... well, maximum 1 litre one, I could guess, fancy shape jar where you could not fit a filter or even a smallest heater... The listing has ended today but here's the link:
Fish Bowl With Siamese Fighter Fish Betta Aquarium Tropical | eBay
I sent a message to the seller.
Quote me saying:
<<
Hi,
Don't you know that this method of keeping bettas you advertising is pure cruelty? Bettas must not be kept this way. It is a shame that you are selling the poor fish like this...
>>
Unquote
I was not expecting a reply and certainly I was not expecting a polite reply but received this.
Quote:
<<
Hi

No we change the water every day, but I see what you mean...
>>
Unquote

As I said, the listing has ended today - they did not remove it after my message - and I am just wondering if they re-list the poor betta...
The reason I opted to posting to the seller as this is not the first time I see cruelty to Bettas on Ebay. A few months back, some other seller actually took the fish OUT of water to put him next to a measuring tape to show his size!!!!!!
That time I did try to find a way to complain to Ebay - to no avail... I also emailed the emage of that poor Betta to Practical Fishkeeping and to my disappointment have not recieved a single reply (I emailed to all contact emails I could find). I am not sure if Practical Fishkeeping staff thought I was some sort of a "weirdo" or what but I was disappointed... Hence I sort of took the matter in my own hands this time.
By the way, both of the sellers on Ebay were actually in the UK - you would expect more of ethics from those sellers, won't you?
I have a suggestion: I believe that many people here which are in the UK have an Ebay account. Doing a search from time to time on bettas may show you some more cruel practices. As Ebay does not have any way to report such incidents, perhaps, not only I but other people would start sending messages to irresponsible (to say the least) sellers on Ebay? Do you think this will make any difference?
P.S. and edit: Sorry for rambling a bit - I just got really furious and emotional...
 
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The listing has already been reported to ebay by many of the members over on the betta splendens facebook group.
 
Thanks Martin - I am starting to feel I am not alone here... Bettas are the most "real pets" fish with wonderful personalities, like "cats and dogs" of the water world. I sort of understand the tradition in the Far East, but civilized Europeans treating the fish like they are not living things appalls me... I have been known rescuing badly treated bettas (as much as my tanks space and compatibility allows), sometimes nursing them to health - and getting the most amasing results: my bettas KNOW me, are GLAD to see me and literally are the most intelligent fish I know... It is a pity the animal cruelty does not seem to be including cruelty to the most intelligent fish...
 
Thanks Gill - this is really good to know. One question: how do you report to Ebay on such matter? In the time of finding the betta getting measured out of the water, I could not find any any way on Ebay to report this...
 
The practice of taking a betta out of the water for measuring is over 10+ years old. Have a look at some of the listings on aquabid, alot of fish are taken out of the water for measuring to show the total length. Some leave them in a bag with a little water, but most take out of the water to measure.
There is an option to report somewhere, will have a look.
Betta Super delta | Halfmoon gene | Full Red Butterfly | eBay | Awesome Screenshot
 
I've always wanted a Betta. I just don't know how they would cope with EI, CO2, weekly water changes. Plus Cherry Barbs and little Rainbow Fish.
 
It does not matter to me if the practice of measuring bettas is 10+ years old. It does not make it it humane or acceptable. I always think of "little creatures" as a "projection" of human beings - if we don't like being treated in any particular way, why on earth we have an authority to treat other creatures in the way we would not like to be treated ourselves?! "simples", really, simple ethics... We are all biological "entities", and being "smarter" is not the reason of feeling superior or being cruel. (small note: some so called "human beings" are much enferior in comparison to the animal world - this is a fact!). You said that this Ebay listing was actually reported to Ebay. Personally, I did not find a way to do so so I would love to know how this is done....
 
Hi Martin,
Bettas will be just fine with EI - as long as your main water change water (tap or whatever) is neutral or soft or even just slightly on a hard side (if you have really hard water from the mains, this is a bit of a challenge but otherwise it is not a problem). Little Rainbowfish should not be a problem either - are they Thredfins? or Neon Ranbows? all of these are fine. Bigger Ranbows (as I have in one of the tanks) are not a threat but they are very quick feeders and it would be difficult to feed other fish - they would not stand a chance to get some food. Cherry barbs - I did not keep any myself (although they do seem attractive). If they are not too fast at "scooping" the food than in it is possible to keep a betta with them - other "parameters" (e.g. size, behaviour, type of fins, etc). seem to be fine as far as I know from reading about them. Alternatively, a 20 litres small project planted tank with a couple of Amano shrimps, a Nerite snail would be a heaven for a betta... Just an internal filter and low tech approach will do just fine...
 
Gill said:
Here, just above the item number in dark blue lettering. Fish Bowl With Siamese Fighter Fish Betta Aquarium Tropical | eBay | Awesome Screenshot
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know this one. This is the one I tried to use first time - did not succeed as the option offered for complaining were "Item is not as described", etc., etc. - nothing on the topic. I even rang Ebay then... Never mind. Perhaps they have some more relevant options now. I must admit, I did not check this time remembering spending hours not achieving anything. I will try this option again if anything else turns up on UK Ebay... Thanks anyway.
 
Unfortunately bettas seem to have drawn the short straw when it comes to their accommodation, in the far east where they are big business they are bred in their thousands and all held in jars or similar. Even lfs hold them in tiny tanks albeit (some) filtered. It's no different to having a red tailed cat in a 2 foot tank. I have been keeping fish for well over 20 years and as far back as I can remember I have seen bettas in jars. Yes it may look inhumane and cruel but think of where many wild type bettas come from? Small, dirty, oxygen depleted pools. I wouldn't personally keep any fish in such a small space but I can't see it being detrimental long term if it's a temporary measure.
 
fish fodder said:
Unfortunately bettas seem to have drawn the short straw when it comes to their accommodation, in the far east where they are big business they are bred in their thousands and all held in jars or similar. Even lfs hold them in tiny tanks albeit (some) filtered. It's no different to having a red tailed cat in a 2 foot tank. I have been keeping fish for well over 20 years and as far back as I can remember I have seen bettas in jars. Yes it may look inhumane and cruel but think of where many wild type bettas come from? Small, dirty, oxygen depleted pools. I wouldn't personally keep any fish in such a small space but I can't see it being detrimental long term if it's a temporary measure.
Click to expand...
Yes, this is all true but it does not mean this is correct way. Wild bettas, indeed, come from "tiny pools" but these pools are in fact part of a much wider ecosystem which speads vast and in total provides much better filtration, water circulation, etc., than in any tiny jars offered by human beings. Rice paddies are vast stretches of water - so I disagree on the fact that keeping Bettas in tiny jars "replicates" their natural invironment. I also said before in this post that I kind of understand cultural differences and sort of understand the way they are kept in the Far East but this fact does not make an excuse for allegedly civilized Europeans to follow it. Do we follow a tradition of mass starved population, cruel wars and etc.? My point is - please, put a line between what is done in Far East and what is the right way.
 
I didn't say it replicates their natural habitat in any way.... What fish lives in a glass box, whatever it's size in the wild? And you can't say "sort of understand" why they are kept the way they are in the Far East and frown upon it in Europe, It's one or the other in my opinion. And Europe is no more civilised than the Far East. Maybe a bit more developed.....
 
Just to add, we are all guilty of cruelty to a certain extent. Keeping fish in an enclosed aquarium, the fact that the majority of us do the best we can to make it as natural as is possible goes some way to make it "ok"
 
fish fodder said:
Just to add, we are all guilty of cruelty to a certain extent. Keeping fish in an enclosed aquarium, the fact that the majority of us do the best we can to make it as natural as is possible goes some way to make it "ok"
Click to expand...

Or.. Do you look at it from a viewpoint of the fish were in a shop full to the hilt with fish, and we saved them and improved their quality of life considerably.

One of us cannot change the industry. If one of us decides 'fish are better off in the wild' we don't bring the industry to its knees.

We have fish and plants because we Are inquisitive creatures, and thus love to watch things develop and grow, along with our own skills.

I, for one, know I'll never be truly 'satisfied' with my aquascaping or even Joinery skills, i just keep on striving :eek:
 
I keep fish because it is one of the few animals that we can keep in captivity and can recreate as close as possible to a natural habitat. The fact still remains that they are in captivity, we just have to make it as "pleasurable" for our pets as possible.
 
I do not necesarily agree that keeping fish in aquariums is cruel. I think many people are cruel in the way they neglect the needs of thier fish or house them inappropriately. However I do not think fish think like we do. They hunger, they mate, the have a degree of interaction within their environment and socially within thier species group. If one can provide for thier needs in captivity, they may well have a better more healthy and long lived life than in the wild.
 
fish fodder said:
I keep fish because it is one of the few animals that we can keep in captivity and can recreate as close as possible to a natural habitat. The fact still remains that they are in captivity, we just have to make it as "pleasurable" for our pets as possible.
Click to expand...
EXACTLY!! I totally agree with this and cannot quite understand you "arguing" with me earlier. The thing is that the concept of the "natural habitat" for Betta Splendens is hugely inaccurate and, like many other "old wives tales" in the hobby, is being spread and repeated over and over again - and this results in untimely deaths of these fish.
For those who are interested: this is one of many sources we you could read about the true natural habitats of these creatures:


The Native Betta Habitat – Separating Fact from Fiction | Betta Fish Care

sanj said:
I do not necesarily agree that keeping fish in aquariums is cruel. I think many people are cruel in the way they neglect the needs of thier fish or house them inappropriately.
Click to expand...
Sanj, I could not agree with this more... I spend many hours on research before I get any new (for me) fish making sure that the conditions I can provide are acceptable. This is why I am appalled by traders offering "suggestions" on keeping one or another type of fish which are inadequate (to say the least). Many people just buy "little toys" and presume that the way these "toys" are kept by the seller is O.K. Sad, really...
 
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