Cyanobacteria / BGA outbreak

[Calamardo Tentaculos]

I have been hit with the dreaded BGA in a new set up. I have removed all visible BGA from the tank, but the smell still lingers even after a water change. Using Ultralife Blue Green Slime remover does not seem to help at all.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can conclusively sort this out? Do I add KN03 to increase nitrates? Spot treat with hydrogen peroxide? I have Tropica Specialised Nutrition and APT e. Which would be better for the purpose of increasing nitrates but not phosphates?

Apologies if this seems obvious but chemistry isn't my strong suit.

Cheers.

 

[sparkyweasel]

Some information about your tank would help.
Tank info guidelines here.

Please read the guidelines for Algae help!

Dear Member Please give as many details as possible regarding your aquarium set-up, when requiring advice/help! The above will be posted at the start of each help request. Why do we ask these questions? It will stop the member posting multiple times, plus adviser's don't need to scroll through...

www.ukaps.org

 

[Calamardo Tentaculos]

Some information about your tank would help.

Oh dear, my apologies for not reading.

1. 54 litres
2. About a month since set up
3. Fluval 307 - sponge media + Seachem Matrix
4. Week Aqua M450 pro - originally at 100% intensity for 4-6 hours; currently at 45% for 6 hours
5. ADA Africana
6. CO2 - citric acid/baking soda generator
7. Tropica Specialised - 1 pump a week; since last week, 1ml of APT E every two days
8. 50% water change once a week. RO remineralised with APT Sky to 6 dGH
9. Phase 1 (start): Monte Carlo; Glossostigma ; Amazon Frogbit; Red Root Floater; Hydrocotyle Tripartita; AR mini; M. Guyana; Ludwigia sp. mini super red; Bucephalandra Red Tropica; Anubias Nana Mini; Crypt Willisii; Rotala bonsai; lobelia cardinalis mini; staurogyne repens; Schismatoglottis prietoi. Phase 2 (week 3): Micranthemum Umbrosum; Bucephalandra Lamandau; Bucephalandra Sintang; Rotala Vietnam H'ra; Hygrophila pinnatifida; Utricularia graminifolia
10. Light green
11. Just added 4 Amano Shrimps on week 4
12. Attached.

BGA has been manually removed from the substrate so barely visible in the photos. I appeared to have removed the outbreak in the substrate by spot dosing hydrogen peroxide but the smell still remains even after a water change.

 

[alnitak]

Hello, your tank was set up one month ago, so the beneficial bacteria are not fully developped in the filter/substrate, the parameters are not steady, and all this could act as a trigger for BGA.
So keep on regular maintenance, water changing, manually remove the BGA and observe the evolution.
I had such an issue in my tank (in a well established tank ie one year after setup) , a total blackout for 5 days removed the BGA, but it started again after several weeks. Then i added Blue Life cyano in the tank, everything was clean after some days, and I never saw BGA again in my tank.
So, i would advise to do accurate maintenance for some weeks, observe, and if no improvement, try to use blue life BGA medicine.

 

[PARAGUAY]

My kitchen aquarium was always having outbreaks of BGA but the plants were healthy ,l removed most BGA in maintenance and regular waterchanges but it persisted. It is low tech. After trying everything except treatments, l reset up in living room (,same plants ,sand substrate and fish ) twelve months on ,no BGA . I put it down to excessive light, besides the LED 8or 9 hour photoperiod it received a lot of daylight during the day from the windows. This is just my own expirence , l also reduced feeding and increased water change regime to 50%a week for a couple of months,now about 30% weekly,quite a few fast growers stems to help keep algae in there at a minimum

 

[MichaelJ]

CO2 - citric acid/baking soda generator

Can you be more specific on this? I am no expert on CO2, but I think the drawback with these generators is that their delivery is fairly inconsistent - inconsistency is always a bad thing.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can conclusively sort this out?

Be patient. Keep changing water.... Consistency is key for any successful planted aquarium. Now that you lowered the light intensity things should improve... you can up the photoperiod. It's the intensity that wreaks havoc, not the photoperiod.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Calamardo Tentaculos]

Then i added Blue Life cyano in the tank, everything was clean after some days, and I never saw BGA again in my tank.
So, i would advise to do accurate maintenance for some weeks, observe, and if no improvement, try to use blue life BGA medicine.

Yes, I do agree that the instability is the most likely cause, but I would like to get rid of it as thoroughly as possible since BGA is very hard to get rid of.

Did you use the Blue Life Red Cyano? It seemed to be for marine tank use...

Can you be more specific on this? I am no expert on CO2, but I think the drawback with these generators is that their delivery is fairly inconsistent - inconsistency is always a bad thing.

Thanks for the advice. It is a ZRDR generator with a regulator and solenoid valve which allows me to turn it off and regulate the bubble per minute. It is a pretty precise set up unlike the usual DIY kits.


Overall my goal is to eradicate this hence the question. Will be doing water changes consistently but I can also report that hydrogen peroxide seemed to have an effect on the BGA in the substrate. No idea how long before it returns though.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Will be doing water changes consistently but I can also report that hydrogen peroxide seemed to have an effect on the BGA in the substrate. No idea how long before it returns though.

The problem is that it will return, if conditions remain suitable for it.

Cyanobacteria, diatoms etc are pretty much universal in freshwater, they will always be present in your aquarium, but most of the time at a level low enough so that they aren't visible.

cheers Darrel

 

[alnitak]

Did you use the Blue Life Red Cyano? It seemed to be for marine tank use...

Hi, no, Green Cyano
Dosed once, finished

 

[castle]

I struggle with these threads, I really could not tell you why I get BBA or BGA, but I do know what I experience in one tank is not replicated in the other. Some tanks have BGA for their entire life, others like my current three have no trace of any algae. however the first tank here had every algae possible.

I would recommend a clean up crew, though not applicable, I find algae is harder to control in aquariums with fish, probably a byproduct of feeding fish.

 

[PARAGUAY]

Overfeeding is often overlooked

 

[MichaelJ]

Overfeeding is often overlooked

Very true. The Fish we keep in the hobby are remarkably adaptable to a lean diet. Probably one of the reasons most of my fish will outlive me geez... I need to change my diet .... well, joking aside I have Black Neon Tetras, Cardinals and Rubys in one tank that that by now are probably 4-6 years old - well beyond their life expectancy in the wild. I hope they are happy... but its hard to tell I guess... the Black Neon are spawning though.🥰

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Calamardo Tentaculos]

Hi all,

The problem is that it will return, if conditions remain suitable for it.

Cyanobacteria, diatoms etc are pretty much universal in freshwater, they will always be present in your aquarium, but most of the time at a level low enough so that they aren't visible.

cheers Darrel

Is there a general rule to prevent the return or emergence of cyanobacteria at least? I see information from low flow, to too high light, lack of nitrates, abundance of phosphates, etc. Seems a bit vague or broad to be honest.

Very true. The Fish we keep in the hobby are remarkably adaptable to a lean diet. Probably one of the reasons most of my fish will outlive me geez... (I'm in a rot I guess - @dw1305 any advice? ) .... well, joking aside I have Black Neon Tetras, Cardinals and Rubys in one tank that that by now are probably 4-6 years old - well beyond their life expectancy in the wild. I hope they are happy... but its hard to tell I guess... the Black Neon are spawning though.🥰

I guess the secret to a longer and healthier life is.... less food? Oh dear, I can't live without my crisps.

 

[Wookii]

I find the emergence of BGA correlates quite strongly to low levels of dissolved oxygen.

I don't know if your filter is switched off in the above photo's @Calamardo Tentaculos, but if it isn't you have far too little surface agitation. That combined with the low plant mass, and the surface scum that appears to be traping CO2 bubbles, will mean fairly low dissolved oxygen levels. For me, maximising dissolved oxygen is key to a healthy algae free tank.

You should raise the filter outlet so the water outflow breaks the water surface as a starting point.

 

[Calamardo Tentaculos]

I find the emergence of BGA correlates quite strongly to low levels of dissolved oxygen.

I don't know if your filter is switched off in the above photo's @Calamardo Tentaculos, but if it isn't you have far too little surface agitation. That combined with the low plant mass, and the surface scum that appears to be traping CO2 bubbles, will mean fairly low dissolved oxygen levels. For me, maximising dissolved oxygen is key to a healthy algae free tank.

You should raise the filter outlet so the water outflow breaks the water surface as a starting point.

Interesting. I didn't think of that.

What about escaping CO2. I would've thought that the lack of oxygen in the tank would correlate with increase plant growth. This might explain why my other tank has no BGA at all since I use a sponge filter to create water surface agitation.

 

[Wookii]

What about escaping CO2.

It's some thing you have to account for in the injection rate - good surface agitation is even more critical on a CO2 injected tank, to ensure stability in the CO2 level during the photo period. That may seem counter intuitive, but too little off-gasing causes an unstable CO2 level in the tank, that will continue increasing (often to dangerous levels) over the injection period.

I would've thought that the lack of oxygen in the tank would correlate with increase plant growth.

Not really, the opposite generally. In a mature think, high levels of DO means lots of photosynthesis, which only comes from plant growth. Tank stability, especially in the early set-up stages like yours, comes from helping to establish the mature microbial community, and they need lots of oxygen. It is those microbes that will eventually out-compete cyno bacteria for real estate in your tank.

 

[Calamardo Tentaculos]

@Wookii That's enlightening. I will adjust the outlet to create surface movement. Hopefully it will improve things.

It just occurred to me that by using hydrogen peroxide, I would be increasing the oxygen levels in the water. Maybe that is why it kills the cyanobacteria.

 

[Wookii]

Maybe that is why it kills the cyanobacteria.

No H2O2 is a very powerful oxidiser that will break down the organic tissues, including the cell walls of the cyno - that's what kills it - but it also has the capacity to damage plants too, and the beneficial microbial community you are trying to establish, which can all just lead to more algae. Personally I wouldn't use it for cyno. The small spike in DO from the H2O2 will be incidental I suspect, and I think long term dosing of H2O2 for that purpose is counter-productive for tank health.

Cyno is best removed manually by vacuuming it out of the tank during water changes, as it doesn't stick strongly to anything.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Is there a general rule to prevent the return or emergence of cyanobacteria at least?

We really don't know what causes any "algae" outbreaks. We think of <"BGA"> as a single entity, but there are hundreds of different species of cyanobacteria, some associated with <"low nutrient situations"> and some with eutrophication.

lack of nitrates, abundance of phosphates, etc. Seems a bit vague or broad to be honest.

Have a look at <"Fighting algae in a two year old tank">.

I would've thought that the lack of oxygen in the tank would correlate with increase plant growth. This might explain why my other tank has no BGA at all since I use a sponge filter to create water surface agitation.

I think that maybe your answer.

Not really, the opposite generally. In a mature think, high levels of DO means lots of photosynthesis, which only comes from plant growth. Tank stability, especially in the early set-up stages like yours, comes from helping to establish the mature microbial community, and they need lots of oxygen. It is those microbes that will eventually out-compete cyno bacteria for real estate in your tank.

Yes, I'm a <"dissolved oxygen obsessive"> as well, more dissolved oxygen is <"always a good thing">. Plants store a limited amount of oxygen in their internal air spaces, which is subsequently used in respiration outside of the photoperiod, but other than that their main interest (<"in C3 plants">) is getting rid of it, it really is the <"waste product of photosynthesis">. It is theoretically possible to have too much oxygen, but only in <"some very specific circumstances">.

Our <"atmosphere is oxygen rich"> (21% O2) initially because of photosynthesis in cyanobacteria, it is their "waste" oxygen that has made aerobic life possible.

cheers Darrel

 

[LMuhlen]

My take on this, not endorsed by any serious research, but only my personal guess, is that cyanos are in constant battle for space. When the adversaries in the microbiota are strong, the cyanos are kept in check. The balance could switch because some parameter favors cyanos or because something hurt the microbiota. This is why it is so difficult to establish the root causes for cyanos outbreaks, it could be something completely unrelated to the cyanos. Those guidelines, such as low nitrates, low circulation/oxygenation, seem to be in line with the situations in which the cyanos out-compete other microbes. It is also associated with increase in temperature, although this could be related to a decrease in dissolved oxygen and increase in oxygen demand.

I have noticed a few times that when the cyanos take root in a tank and then are obliterated by antibiotics, usually there are no other algae left, even if the tank had multiple algae issues before the cyanos. The cyanos simply destroy all the competition when it gets a hold.