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Dark start or straight to planting?

Anomander

Anomander

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24 Apr 2024
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Hello all,

I'm in the slow process of setting up a 70 litre low-tech tank (Ciano Aqua 80). It will have pool filter sand substrate, and I plan to have mostly wood for hardscape. In terms of plants, I plan to attach plenty of Anubias to the wood, as well as have Frogbit floating on top. Once it is all well seasoned I plan to add Pygmy Corydoras and possibly some shrimp.

My question is, with this setup, will there be any benefit to a dark start, or shall I get straight to planting the Anubias and Frogbit? Thanks in advance for any advice offered.
 
You can do dark start to cycle the filter without fish but you will need ammonia to start the cycle which is normally provided by rich aqusoils like ada amazonia or tropica soil.

You could just add ammonia or ghost feed with some fish food / frozen shrimp.

I have became a firm advocate of dark start method. Used it on two of my tanks with great success.
 
Ah OK , so even without aquasoil it's worth it as it gives the filter a chance to grow nitrifying bacteria without the "competition" of the plants?

Do you have any personal experience of an effective ammonia source to cycle the filter if using an inert substrate? The internet being the internet, I've read that fish food is both the best and the worst source of ammonia for cycling!

Thanks for your help
 
I usually plant straight away with inert sand or soil capped with sand, though I do mainly grow stem plants.
One of the best ways of starting cycling is a squeeze of dirty water from a mature filter sponge! Or even a piece of sponge you can tuck into your own filter.
That has everything you need to get things going so if you have a friendly LFS or know someone with a tank you could ask.
I like the sound of a tank full of pygmy corydoras, they're lovely little fish & do well in a large group.
 
I have a friendly LFS, so I will definitely ask them for some media if it saves some cycling time. And yes, my thinking behind a species tank rather than community was that I could accommodate more corys, and hopefully that would make them happier 🙂
 
If you’re planning a low-energy tank, I’d just go ahead and plant. Media from an established filter is always good. But also there will be enough microorganisms on the plants to inoculate the tank and get the cycle going. Plant very densely from the get go, and you’ll be off to a good start.
 
Thanks, I'm planning to go heavy on the Anubias and Frogbit; hoping that the latter provides shade for the former.

E2A: Am I right in thinking that when I first plant I should start with c. 6hrs of light and about half liquid fertiliser dosing?
 
Yes that would be a good idea. But it’s a balancing act between light intensity and fertz dosing. It's one you’ll get the hang of with experience. Once the tank has become established it is possible to slowly increase the photoperiod to 12 hours. For frets dosing take a look at Darrel’s Duck Weed Index. And for general info, this article on low-energy tanks, and this one by Tom Barr is also worth a look, Non-CO2 Methods.
 
Just a thought: I will wait until the plants are healthy and growing before adding any fish, but during that interim period before adding fish, do I need to regularly add a source of ammonia to help cycling, or will the plant fertiliser provide that? Cheers
 
It seems to me that this idea of adding ammonia to fuel the cycling process is based mostly on "making sense" than on actual research. I personally don't believe it is needed.

My understanding is that a multitude of microbial species exist and compete for room in your tank. The ones with a better fit will ultimately prevail. You expect your tank to run with trace amount of ammonia, so if you cycle it with higher levels, you'll get your tank colonized by microbes that like being in a high ammonia setting. When the levels reduce, they'll slowly be replaced by the actual microbes that will populate your tank from then on, extending the turbulent period of tank maturation. So it would be better to just cycle your tank with the setting that you plan on running in the end.

And there will be ammonia. Microbe colonies will grow and die multiple times while microbial equilibrium is formed, and they will generate plenty of ammonia in the process. In fact, the dark start is mostly useful because of this period where the microbial war is at its fullest, when the strong lights would add aggressive algae as viable contenders and hurt the plants. But without strong lights and delicate plants, it is possible, and even probable, that it isn't really needed.
 
Thank you for the comprehensive response; this is such a great place to learn.
 
Yes absolutely right. There is no need to add ammonia to a planted tank to cycle it. Just plant and let nature do its thing. There is quite a lot of in-depth info on tank cycling and microbial communities here on UKAPS, thanks mainly to Darrel’s @dw1305 research. Just for starters

Correspondence with Dr Ryan Newton - School of Freshwater Sciences, University of Wisconsin—Milwaukee

Hi all, Leading on from our discussion about the I contacted, Ryan Newton , one of the authors of "Bartelme RP, Smith MC, Sepulveda-Villet OJ, Newton RJ. (2019). "Component microenvironments and system biogeography structure microorganism distributions in recirculating aquaculture and...
www.ukaps.org
 
Hi all,
Anomander said:
Just a thought: I will wait until the plants are healthy and growing before adding any fish, but during that interim period before adding fish, do I need to regularly add a source of ammonia to help cycling,
Click to expand...
No, you don't. If you aren't going to have plants? You still <"need to cycle the tank">, but once you have a reasonable plant mass?
You don't.

Have a look at our thread where we talked to Dr Tim Hovanec - <"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments about Bacterial supplements">.
Anomander said:
Ah OK , so even without aquasoil it's worth it as it gives the filter a chance to grow nitrifying bacteria without the "competition" of the plants?
Click to expand...
We now know that it doesn't really work like that <"When to add fish!">.

In a planted tank you always have <"synergistic plant / microbe biofiltration">. Plants, the substrate and the filter media form <"a whole interconnected entity">, they aren't separate compartments that don't interact.

We also know (from <"research by scientists like Ryan Newton">) that nitrification is actually performed by a huge number of different microbes, these include:
  • Ammonia Oxidising Bacteria (AOB) and <"Ammonia oxidising Archaea (AOA)">, which convert TAN ammonia to nitrite (NO2-),
  • <"COMAMMOX Nitrospira">, which converts TAN directly to nitrate (NO3-) and
  • non-COMAMMOX Nitrospira , which convert nitrite to nitrate.
What this research has also shown is that the ammonia oxidising bacteria (that had been isolated from sewage sludge, that were thought to perform nitrification, and needed high ammonia levels (like Nitrobacter and Nitrosomonas) don't actually occur in aquarium filters - <"Bacteria Revealed">.
Tim Harrison said:
There is no need to add ammonia to a planted tank to cycle it
Click to expand...
LMuhlen said:
It seems to me that this idea of adding ammonia to fuel the cycling process is based mostly on "making sense" than on actual research. I personally don't believe it is needed.
Click to expand...
That's it, you don't need to add ammonia, if you want to add a sprinkle of fish food etc it won't do any harm but it isn't necessary.

cheers Darrel
 
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Thanks for all the info and reading material; I feel more confident in my next steps.
 
Hi all,
Anomander said:
I feel more confident in my next steps.
Click to expand...
It just makes <"life a lot easier">, all you have to do is have a <"reasonably large plant mass in active growth"> and then keep it that way. All <"the measuring"> and <"heavy lifting"> is done by the plant / microbe biofiltration.

I'm probably absurdly proud of the <"Duckweed Index">. I think it works by <"deskilling aquarium keeping">, and that is honestly a good thing, because it allows more people (including beginners) to have successful planted tanks, with healthy fish, for <"relatively little expenditure">.

<"When life intervenes"> the tank will keep on chugging along on minimum intervention until you can expend more time on it. These are <"stable and resilient ecosystems">, not ones that are constantly <"teetering on the brink of disaster">.

If you go on other forums or FB groups (I admit it, I do occasionally visit other groups), half the posts are on "why did my fish die" etc.

cheers Darrel
 
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