Deficiency advice

Fisher2007

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Hi all

Looking for some advice re deficiencies please

My 220 litre high tech has been running 4 months now and has grown in really well but I've started to notice some deficiencies though, particularly recently in my crypts. I'll upload an close up shot when the lights come on later but for now here's a full tank shot taken a couple of weeks ago

Basically a couple or more of the crypt leaves have some holes and yellowing around those holes

The tank obviously has CO2 and at a bps to quick for me to count. It comes on 2.5 hours before lights on and off an hour before lights off. Drop checker is lime green from the start of the photoperiod and throughout

I dose 24mls of TNC complete daily without fail

Lighting is a twinstar 1200 set at 100% for 6.5 hours with a further 15 min ramp up and down at either end

I've noticed a couple of small holes in my lotus leaves too

Water changes are 60% once a week without fail

Flow is 2 x Oase 350 thermos which are cleaned every two weeks

I've noticed the holes over the last few weeks and so I'm guessing that as the overall plant mass of the tank has increased my level of dosing ferts is no longer enough. I'm therefore thinking I just up the 24mls but before I do I wanted to get some advice from those that know. This is my first high tech tank

Just to add I don't test and never had. I've never been convinced by the accuracy of hobby kits (goes back to my days of keeping marines)

Thanks!
 

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Sammy Islam

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Sounds like a potassium deficiency with holes and yellowing around them. Potassium is a mobile nutrient meaning plants can reclaim K from older leaves to create new healthy ones leaving the old ones with holes and yellowing i think. I would up to 30ml a day and trim off any affected leaves as these will not recover. Wait a week or two and monitor older leaves that are healthy to see if they become deficient.
 
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Hang on, have you calculated the dosage of TNC Complete correctly? I think you are already overdosing!

The standard, “low tech” dose is 1ml per 10 litres, once per week. So for your tank that would be 22ml, once per week.

For high energy tanks, you can administer that dose three times a week, so for your tank it would be a total of 66ml spread through the week. If you wanted to dose every day (as I do, because it’s easier for my simple brain to remember), I reckon you should be dosing about 10ml per day.

I agree that it does match the symptoms of a K deficiency, but I don’t see how it can be, given that you’re already overdosing!

I would reduce the fert dose to 10ml daily, and see how things go. Far from being a deficiency, I think it’s equally likely you’re seeing a toxicity of one or more micronutrients. Or could it be that the overdose is causing poor uptake of the available K? For example, if you overfeed tomato plants with potash, it interferes with the plant’s uptake of magnesium and you end up with a deficiency, even though plenty of magnesium is available. I just wonder if something similar is happening?
 
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Fisher2007

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Warrington
Hang on, have you calculated the dosage of TNC Complete correctly? I think you are already overdosing!

The standard, “low tech” dose is 1ml per 10 litres, once per week. So for your tank that would be 22ml, once per week.

For high energy tanks, you can administer that dose three times a week, so for your tank it would be a total of 66ml spread through the week. If you wanted to dose every day (as I do, because it’s easier for my simple brain to remember), I reckon you should be dosing about 10ml per day.

I agree that it does match the symptoms of a K deficiency, but I don’t see how it can be, given that you’re already overdosing!

I would reduce the fert dose to 10ml daily, and see how things go. Far from being a deficiency, I think it’s equally likely you’re seeing a toxicity of one or more micronutrients. Or could it be that the overdose is causing poor uptake of the available K? For example, if you overfeed tomato plants with potash, it interferes with the plant’s uptake of magnesium and you end up with a deficiency, even though plenty of magnesium is available. I just wonder if something similar is happening?

Thanks for looking into it and I did wonder the same when I started but I've checked with the guys at Aquarium Gardens and my current dose is right as per their instructions and what they do but I do know that goes again the instructions as per the bottle
 
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Given the mismatch between AG’s advice and what’s recommended, I personally would be returning to the manufacturer’s recommendation. I certainly wouldn’t be taking the dose to even further extremes.

The manufacturer’s recommendation to dose the standard rate three times is designed to give a safe overdose of nutrients. The advice you’re following is to more than double that rate. How do you know that it’s still safe?

My tomato analogy illustrates that overdosing of nutrients can result in an unexpected deficiency due to poor uptake of available nutrients.

The decision is yours: given that you have a problem, do you return to the manufacturer’s recommendation, or do you move even further away from it?
 

Fisher2007

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Given the mismatch between AG’s advice and what’s recommended, I personally would be returning to the manufacturer’s recommendation. I certainly wouldn’t be taking the dose to even further extremes.

The manufacturer’s recommendation to dose the standard rate three times is designed to give a safe overdose of nutrients. The advice you’re following is to more than double that rate. How do you know that it’s still safe?

My tomato analogy illustrates that overdosing of nutrients can result in an unexpected deficiency due to poor uptake of available nutrients.

The decision is yours: given that you have a problem, do you return to the manufacturer’s recommendation, or do you move even further away from it?

I think that's fair comment and a fair argument. Be interested to hear of anyone else's thoughts and particularly if they too use TNC complete
 

jaypeecee

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Hi @Fisher2007

There has been quite a bit of discussion recently here on UKAPS about the interaction of nutrients - specifically, calcium (Ca), magnesium (Mg) and potassium (K). Ca and Mg are the two primary elements that determine the GH of your water. So, could you let us have the GH and KH (for good measure) of your tank water?

Thanks.

JPC
 

Fisher2007

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Hi @Fisher2007

There has been quite a bit of discussion recently here on UKAPS about the interaction of nutrients - specifically, calcium (Ca), magnesium (Mg) and potassium (K). Ca and Mg are the two primary elements that determine the GH of your water. So, could you let us have the GH and KH (for good measure) of your tank water?

Thanks.

JPC

In all honesty I don't know. As per my earlier post, I've never tested
 

jaypeecee

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Hi @Fisher2007

Is it really necessary to blast your tank with so much light? Just spotted where you say:

"Lighting is a twinstar 1200 set at 100% for 6.5 hours with a further 15 min ramp up and down at either end"

As I understand it, lighting is like the conductor of an orchestra. It dictates the pace at which nutrients need to be supplied. Is it worth reducing the light intensity?

Just my two penn'orth.

JPC
 
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Hi @Fisher2007

Is it really necessary to blast your tank with so much light? Just spotted where you say:

"Lighting is a twinstar 1200 set at 100% for 6.5 hours with a further 15 min ramp up and down at either end"

The Twinstar 1200 is rated at 6,400 lumens. I acknowledge that lumens are not the perfect measure of aquarium lighting, but it’s the only figure I can find. It means his tank has about 30 lumens per litre, which according to Tropica’s web site means that he’s in the medium light intensity category. It doesn’t seem an unreasonable amount of light for an established tank.
 

jaypeecee

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The Twinstar 1200 is rated at 6,400 lumens. I acknowledge that lumens are not the perfect measure of aquarium lighting, but it’s the only figure I can find. It means his tank has about 30 lumens per litre, which according to Tropica’s web site means that he’s in the medium light intensity category. It doesn’t seem an unreasonable amount of light for an established tank.

Hi @Dr Mike Oxgreen

The Twinstar 1200 is a pendant light, as you will have noticed. I don't know how close it is to the tank water surface. And, as you say, lumens are for humans, not plants. I just find it strange that this powerful light needs to be run at 100%.

I'll watch how things progress but I'll be signing out very soon. Back tomorrow, hopefully.

JPC
 

Fisher2007

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I suppose I'm just following advice from others, those tanks I like and those shops I trust. I know many people run the twinstar at 100%
 

Tankless

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I suppose I'm just following advice from others, those tanks I like and those shops I trust. I know many people run the twinstar at 100%

I also run my Twinstar at a 100% and have not come across any issues as of yet.
 

Sammy Islam

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I run a twinstar 900 at 100% and will be lowering the unit next week. Currently about 14cm from the water surface so will lower by an inch and see how it goes.
 
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Are the chlorotic holes on the old leaves? If so, then it's -Zn and likely induced. Excess Fe can induce it, so can high phosphate concentrations. What are the actual nutrient dosages? This symptom is NOT -K.
 

Fisher2007

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Are the chlorotic holes on the old leaves? If so, then it's -Zn and likely induced. Excess Fe can induce it, so can high phosphate concentrations. What are the actual nutrient dosages? This symptom is NOT -K.

Hi. They are as per my original post. 24mls of TNC complete daily

Thanks
 

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