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Deteriorating Hemianthus callitrichoides - Am I prescribing the right 'medicine'?

TimT

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Joined
24 Jul 2013
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117
Hi!

I know there are several threads on this subjects but I don't want to high-jack a thread and no two situations are the same. I hope that somebody can still find it in their hearts to help :)

I have a new tank and after a week with good explosive growth of my HC I trimmed it. After this it have had trouble bouncing back and a few leaves has turned brown and entire patches are showing signs of turning slightly yellowish or at least a more bright green than the more healthy parts. The color balance on my mobile phone is somewhat off. It look more yellow and old in real life. And I know how it should look from other posts in the forum and from the first week in my tank. So think more yellow than in this picture:

4y9w.jpg


I also get a lot of foam in the surface and other tiny specs and patches floating around that either look like tiny bubbles or just matt areas of water. The water column on the other hand is crystal clear with only the tiny bubbles of CO2 visible. I'm not sure if the non-bubble stuff constitute a film (I have seen threads on that) and I wasn't able to take a picture of that (my camera wont focus on that). But here is the bubbles:

6zvm.jpg


The flow is really powerful and carry the CO2 bubbles all around the tank after I had trimmed my background plants and raised the water level a week into the project.

My tank is a 19 liter nano with a Tropica Nano CO2 system running at 20 bubbles per minute. This is the rule of thumb from Tropica with a tank my size and the requirements of the HC. There is a 1 cm of Tropica Plant Growth Substrate in the bottom and I have topped it off with ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia. The tank is 47 cm wide, 15 cm deep and 25 cm high. I have a homemade LED setup with 9 CREE XP-G2 LED's. The first two weeks I had them running at ~700 mA each which according to the data sheet for the LED would give me a total of ~1900 lm. Or 19 watts in LED power (0.7 A x 3 V x 9 LED). I have the lights on for 7 hours in a room that is otherwise totally dark.

From what I can read here on UKAPS there seem to be two possible solutions. One option is adjusting the CO2/lighting ratio and the other adding some fertilizers that might be lacking and giving the yellowish color. The majority vote seems to be on CO2/lighting ratio.

I have now turned the light down to 300mA which according to the data sheet of the LEDs would give me a total of ~1100 lm (8 Watts of LED power). I have been running this new setting for the last 2 days now. (the entire tank is only ~14 days old). For two days I've been adding som Easy-Life ProFito (fertilizer without nitrates or phosphates). I'm a bit weary of turning up the CO2 as I would like to add some more fish later and I don't know what they can handle (7 shrimps, 2 snails and an Oto is the only inhabitants now). I would like to keep the CO2 cost down. So I went for the option with turning down the light to 300 mA. I'm getting a magnetic valve in a few days so I can turn off the CO2 outside the photo period.

I feel like I'm steering a oil super tanker in the dark. I know how to operate the controls but once you turn the rudder several days passes before you can see the result. I have a log of the stats from water analysis so let me know if you need those.

So my questions are:

  • Would you recommend more drastic changes? If 'yes', what?
  • How long before I can see a change?
  • Will the slightly yellow leaves bounce back or should I write them off and focus on the new leaves?
  • I get a EI starter kit with nitrates and phosphates delivered shortly. My tank appears to be cycled with NO2 just reaching 0 mg/l today and NO3 on 25 mg/l for the last 3 days. I should still wait with that, right?
Any input would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
/Tim

PS: You can find some pictures of the tank when everything was well and exploding in the thread called "How quickly can I start over? (and a few observations and other questions)" in the "General Planted Tank Discussions" but I'm not allowed to link because I don't have any 'like's yet.
 
Hi Tim,
Essentialy i would recomend you to use "ADA Green Brighty Special Lights". I guess that is one of the main reassons of my HC improvment. You should also be sure if the light you're using has the right color temperature and if it is strong enough. Go crazy and get a AQUASKY451 :)
And since we are talking about a nano, why don't you change 5lt every 2/3 days?
 
Hey ,
I think Colour temperature and light intensity isn't as important as having enough co2 ,
I know hc really needs sufficient co2 to grow, I don't think you can skimp on it really.
For instance I am growing hc like a weed with DIY LEDs , ( not Cree, they are bridgelux) 75% of the LEDs are 10kelvin bulbs.
Kelvin is Mainly an option for an aesthetic point don't be fooled by this , do a search on the forum.
Cheers
 
Hi,
I would disagree with the idea of buying ADA product to solve this problem. There is nothing in Brighty Green that cannot already be found in the EI powders, which are 100X cheaper. A lack of nutrition can certainly be a problem, if not now, then possibly later. I also completely disagree regarding whether the color of your lights have any relevance. These ideas are all false prophets.

Reducing the lighting when there are health problems is always a good first step. People have way too much lighting in the first place. I cannot see in the photo how you are distributing the CO2 but getting flow and distribution to the substrate level is important in the delivery of CO2.

Have a look at the thread Reliability of Drop Checkers | UK Aquatic Plant Society
Follow the procedure described in that thread and take the pH readings at regular intervals before and during the photoperiod. Then report the values and we can assess from there.


I also read in one persons journal that his HC didn't grow until he added seachem flourish.
Seachem flourish is nothing more than a trace element mix, which contains 100X less trace elements than the EI starter pack that the OP has already purchased.


Ah HC my nemesis. Spent a fortune on this and couldn't get it to grow. Personally I think you need plenty of light....
That is normally why people spend a fortune and yet fail at growing HC. I spend hardly any money at all, don't use Seachem Fliourish, don't use Special N formula, and yet had to rip out HC because it grew like an obnoxious weed.

Cheers,
 
My fertilizer was about 15€ and for my 80lt. System should at least last 3/4 months. For good results, 0,10€ a day doesen't seem expensive. Of course there must be others equaly good, if not better...
I agree with the co2 question but for 19lt, 24/24, 20 bps i supose is enough. Don't you have a co2 indicator? I have a hang on from GUSH that i consider perfect for small systems. Arround 20€ ::Gush:: Gadgets For Planted Tank
 
Well, for a comparable amount of money, the EI starter Pack that the OP has already purchased will serve an 80L tank approximately for 3-4 years, so it's no contest.

Cheers,
 
Thank you all so much for your input!

@Ceg:
Thanks! I'll do extensive measurements in the weekend according to the article! Great read! The magnetic valve arrived today. Should I wait to install it not to cloud the issues and make it all more complex until the readings are in this weekend?

I have a cheap nano tank where the filtration and outflow is handled in a s-shaped department in one of the ends of the tank. The water is sucked in, through the filters and is then spewed out through a hole in the top of the tank in the direction of the long axis of the tank. Unfortunately I can't control the direction of the flow :( I have experimented with the water height as this affects the up/down direction of the water jet.

I have moved the CO2 diffuser to new location tonight that seems to give the bubbles a more creeping flow over the HC than the previous location.

I also installed a drop checker (yes, I didn't use tank water but kH4 water instaed :) ) Preliminary reading indicate too little CO2 but I have just moved the diffuser so I will know fore sure when more time has passed.

@CMG: Thank for your input. I do 50% water changes when I do them. I think 4 days is the longest without a change (the tank is only 14 days so I did them very often in the beginning). The drop checker looks like a cool design! I would certainly consider that one once things are OK again but for now I like that I can move the one I have to the lowe parts of the tanks to get reading there.

@WetElbow: Thanks! I'll read that article too although I'll stick to my EI salts. If Ceg's number holds I'll have enough salts for 12-16 years :p
 
No contest at all :)
Only results can speak!
Sadly... We, I at least, can't say for sure where results come from.
Good soil, proper light, correct quantity of co2, good fertilizer, water changes... Would it be that easy! I guess it's a mix of things well done that will result in sucess!
Cheers
 
Be careful when connecting the magnetic valvue... Don't forget a lot of pressure will be in the connections you make.
 
Give us feedback if you turn it around.

HC is a funny plant. Even when you think your ticking all the boxs it wont grow:banghead: while others grow it no problems.

Good luck
 
@Ceg: I'll have to wait with the measurements you recommend. The test kits I have is simply too bad and I don't want to waste your time with the data they will produce. The two pH kits I have have intervals of 0.4 and 0.5 and the kH has an interval of 4 :eek: I have ordered a pH meter that will give me readings with an interval of 0.1 and a kH test kit with an interval of 1. Thank you for your help so far - I really appreciate it!

In general I have seen a turn for the better after I moved the diffuser and I have also gone from 20 bpm to 30 bpm with the CO2. No more HC is turning yellow and and new green leaves are sprouting up a lot of places. But the pearling are very very limited so I look forward to getting the new test equipment so I can adjust it properly and not in the blind.
 
Hi,
That's good news, glad to hear it. Do not worry about pearling. That is not a priority and it doesn't really tell you much. Leaves not turning yellow and new leaves sprouting tells you all you need to know.

Cheers,
 
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