Difference between methods?

[kajaksurfa]

What is the differences between the different methods (mixtures) like
TPN+, PMDD, IE, CSM+B etc....... I am sure there are more.....


I understand that some mixtures or methods needs to be complemented
with others due to that the contained substances otherwise would react with each other in
case one would mix them all together in the same bottle....

It would be nice to have an information with the chemicals included and
what they do and don't as well as the pro and con's which each method.


Best Regars Leif

 

[George Farmer]

Hi Leif

As you have suggested, there are products and methods.

Products can be used to implement different methods and the two are not mutually exclusive.

There are two basic methods -

1. Providing excess nutrients to ensure there's always enough nutrients. EI (Estimative Index) is popular and effective for many. Usually dry chemicals are used to provide macro and micronutrients i.e. NPK, and CSM+B or similar trace element powders. Sometimes an off-the-shef product(s) can be used to implement EI i.e. Tropica Plant Nutrition+ (TPN+), the ADA range, Easy Life range etc. Mixtures are also used i.e. dry chemicals for macronutrients, and an off-the-shelf product for trace elements (micronutrients).

2. Providing 'just enough' nutrients to ensure there's enough nutrients. This can be relatively difficult and relies on calibrated test kits to test for nutrients. One such method is PPS (Perpetual Preservation System). However, very rich substrates can be used to ensure enough nutrients are available. The ADA system is a good example of this. Liquid fertilisers are generally 'lean' and the substrate makes up for any lack in water column nutrients. Once the substrate becomes depleted in nutrients, more nutrients are required in the water column. ADA compensate for this with their Step 1,2,3 range, ECA, and Special Lights and Shade.

Mixing products is usually ok, with a couple of exceptions i.e PO4 and Fe. There are ways around though, as described in JamesC's All-in-One article here -

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm

The pros and cons of each method/products largely depends on your system and goal.

For example, for large high-energy tanks (lots of light, CO2, flow etc.) then EI or PMDD+PO4 with dry chemcals is likely the best value.

At the other end of the scale, for nano aquaria without CO2, then adding an off-the-shelf comprehensive micronutrient additive may be ideal.

For El Natural/NPT/low-tech systems, then relying purely on a soil-based substrate and fish food/waste may be ideal.+

Finally, there is no specific right or best way to provide nutrients to you plants. In my opinion, if whatever method/product works for you, then great! Try out different products and methods and see what works best for you and your tank(s).

I hope that helps.

 

[plantbrain]

As George mentions, what is your goal?
How much time/effort do you want to put into it? How into the plant thing are you(eg George got into it really intensity in a few weeks/months, some take a decade or more).

Focus on that and see if the labor/cost/management are worth while or what trade offs you have to get that goal.
Has nothing to do with which is "better", has everything to do with which is "better for a management goal".

From there, folks can help/discuss trade offs etc.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[kajaksurfa]

Hello again and thanks for the responce

My first goal is knowledge.....I belong to the people who find "reading the manual" is just as fun as using the product.......

Second goal is to verify my knowledge in my aquariums and see what works for me and what doesn't.

I have just ordered the substances for the EI method and will try this first, as I normally do the 50% waterchange anyway.

It was not so easy to find smaller amounts of PMDD here in Sweden, since all chemical suppliers, but some specialist aquarium stores, would not sell me less than bags of 25 kg.... and then it was not so cheap anymore......

It's not at all that I want to grow plant's huge or commersially, but I love to see my plants green and lush with oxygen bubbles without contaminating algae. I use commercial micronutrients but it's not until lately I read about the macros
in the informative EI dosage article by CEG.

I have started to use pressurized CO2 with a powerhead reactor and I see that this gives me a really good start with my Java Ferns and Cryptocorynes

But less wants more and what's growing faster than my plants is my interest in this hobby.
I just love a site like this which can provide you with so much more of the "know how" than the ordinary old books at the library

Thank's Leif

 

[plantbrain]

I know some Swedes, nice folks.
I think Daniel is pretty active.
Dusko also.

Detlef I think is his screen name, they have both been around a very long time and should easily be able to direct you to the required ferts.

While EI is popular(mostly due to simplicity), I think sediment ferts, like ADA Aqua soil are good, or DIY versions of worm castings, or osmocoat etc can be of great use, making management even easier.

Adjusting EI down can be done incrementally also to match the plant's response, this way you can dose just enough, but start at a non limiting point and go until you see a limitation in the plants, then bump the dosing back up to that last prior dosing routine. However, not doing this and doing the typical EI routine will not do harm to fish or plants.

So you can go either way or argue either side(results are similar).

I think some excellent articles, that I myself suggested long ago and independently of Tropica are well described here:

CO2:

http://www.tropica.com/go.asp?article=835

Light:

http://www.tropica.com/go.asp?article=836
Tropica has been more forthcoming than most anyone about how to grow aquatic plants.

Now many will poo poo me for nagging about light and CO2, and suggesting nutrients are less important.
This has not changed since I have been posting on line, which goes back to 1995.
Aquarist spend much too much time messing with nutrients, poor test methods and not enough watching and adjusting light to a reasonable low level and then good management of CO2.
Then they blame all their problems on nutrients.

You cannot look at the issues with management of growth without looking at Light, then CO2(or not adding it) and nutrients without each of the others. It's not one thing, it's all 3 and then the human issues we have.

Regards,
Tom Barr