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Diorama - "Dutch style" (Mg>K experiment) Lean dosing

macek.g

macek.g

Member
Joined
28 Dec 2008
Messages
101
Location
Livingston
Hello everyone

In my next tank, I wanted to fertilize over a longer period of time in such a way that K did not exceed Mg, and even with minimal K.

@plantnoobdude and @Happi also use such a fertilization regime, so this will be another example.

The tank is one year old and planted with many plants.
Let's move on to fertilization and tank equipment

Tank- 60x45x36
Filter- Eheim 2015
Light- Skylight Hyperbar (Chihiros WRGB 2 before)
CO2 - Yes
Substrate-Prodibio Soil

Fertilization and WC
NO3 - 4.41ppm (3.25ppm - CaNO3,MgNO3,KNO3) + (NO3 from UREA -1.16ppm )= 4.41ppm NO3
PO4- 0.75ppm
K-0.55ppm
Ca-0.4ppm
Mg-0.22
GH-0.1
dose p/w
W/C
RO- 40-50% p/w
Ca- 15ppm
Mg- 5ppm
gH-3.29
SO4- 18.77
kH-0
Sometimes, say every other week, I give 0.5-1 ppm K from Kcl

Trace:
Fe- 0.025
Mn-0.0071
Zn-0.0036
B-0.0026
Cu-0.0037
Mo-0.0001
or Tropica 50% dose


Photos without cropping:
 

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Last edited:
@macek.g

am looking forward to this experiment. anyway, me and @plantnoobdude may have used different type of chemicals so this could change some of the results, but lets see what happens. It looks something like this in my case:

Recipe #1

RO water Mineralized to:
CaSo4:
Ca 10
S 8.0006
dGH 1.4007

MgSo4:
Mg 4
S 5.2771
dGH 0.9234

Macros, 1-2X Week:
N 1
P 0.13
K 0.8

KNO3, NH4NO3, UREA, KH2PO4:
0.23 N from KNO3
0.27 N from NH4NO3
0.5 N from Urea

Weekly:
Fe 0.1
Mn 0.067
Zn 0.014
B 0.014
Cu 0.014
Mo 0.004

Fe DTPA, Fe HEEDTA, Mn EDTA, Zn EDTA, H3BO3, Cu EDTA, Na2MoO4*2H2O


Recipe #2

RO water Mineralized to:
CaCl:
Ca. 10
Cl 17.69
dGH. 1.42

MgSo4:
Mg. 4
S. 5.28
dGH. 0.92

Macros, 1-2X Week:
N 1
P 0.13
K 0.8

NH4NO3, KH2PO4, KCL (or K2SO4)

Weekly:
Fe 0.1
Mn 0.067
Zn 0.014
B 0.014
Cu 0.014
Mo 0.004

Fe DTPA, Fe HEEDTA, Mn EDTA, Zn EDTA, H3BO3, Cu EDTA, Na2MoO4*2H2O

How my Regime works:

these numbers stays constant (During 100% RO water Mineralization):

Ca. 10
Mg. 3-4

these numbers can vary:

N 1
P 0.13
K 0.8

if you add 0.5 ppm N daily, which will also add 0.4 ppm K and 0.065 ppm P. these numbers are likely to be up taken daily (estimated), next day you are starting with 0 N, P, K all over again (estimated), you dose 0.5 ppm N, 0.4 ppm K and 0.065 ppm P again. I for example add 1 ppm N, 0.8 ppm K and 0.13 ppm P every other day, which comes up to 3 ppm N, 2.4 ppm K and 0.39 ppm P weekly. please, keep in mind that these are estimated numbers of uptake under high light, co2 enriched aquarium with several plants. the numbers would be far less if this was to be dosed in low tech setups.

This is weekly dose for Micros/Fe:
Fe 0.1
Mn 0.067
Zn 0.014
B 0.014
Cu 0.007-0.014
Mo 0.004

I sometime target 0.05 Fe weekly from the above. I might be able to get away with such numbers due to DTPA and HEEDTA, this may vary for some users.

In another word if one were to dose this style below:

Mon: N 0.5 ppm, P 0.065, K 0.4 ppm, 0.025 Fe
Tue: N 0.5 ppm, P 0.065, K 0.4 ppm
Wed: N 0.5 ppm, P 0.065, K 0.4 ppm, 0.025 Fe
Thu: N 0.5 ppm, P 0.065, K 0.4 ppm
Fri: N 0.5 ppm, P 0.065, K 0.4 ppm, 0.025 Fe
Sat: N 0.5 ppm, P 0.065, K 0.4 ppm
Sun: N 0.5 ppm, P 0.065, K 0.4 ppm, 0.025 Fe

Weekly water changes aren't required but will be beneficial, my tank is about 50 gallons, I change 25 gallons. I mineralize the 25-gallon fresh RO water to Ca 5, Mg 1.5-2 before adding it to the aquarium.

Total:
N 3.5
P 0.455
K 2.8
Fe 0.1

as of right now, this is my dosing regime, it is subject to change with the new experiments and new findings. I personally use Recipe #1 and sometime add 1 ppm Cl as it is lacking in the Recipe #1. this post is just to give you an idea how my dosing looks like.
 
So I made some mistakes in the description, sorry for the confusion.
This tank with this experiment lasts a year...:)
The effects can be seen in the photos

I will definitely try your recipe. I think there will be no problems.
In general, it is as @_Maq_ presented, K in the plant is still more than Mg (preferential supply of K)
I bought Marschner's book and I will look for the information described by @_Maq_

Seachem method of potassium dosing

there are many other factors at play Apart from microbes sequestering nitrogen in their cells, ammonia is subject to degassing (esp. when pH is higher), plus denitrification of which we know lamentably few. How much nitrogen is lost due to denitrification in our tanks? We can only guess...
www.ukaps.org

Generally, I have one more experiment in mind... remember Happi from the APC forum, MCI method... Dr. Petz preferred Ca-Mg 1-4...
maybe in the distant future.
:)
 
macek.g said:
MCI method... Dr. Petz preferred Ca-Mg 1-4.
Click to expand...
I remember during those days I was already accidently adding 2 ppm Ca and 8 ppm Mg before I came across with the MCI Method. while it did produced some great results but I believe this was rather due to secondary effects or certain ratios at play. I tried correcting the GSA during that time using the PO4 Protocol but it turned out this too was due to secondary effects or certain ratios.

anyway, am glad to see you looking into Marschner's book.
 
Happi said:
if you add 0.5 ppm N daily, which will also add 0.4 ppm K and 0.065 ppm P. these numbers are likely to be up taken daily (estimated), next day you are starting with 0 N, P, K all over again (estimated), you dose 0.5 ppm N, 0.4 ppm K and 0.065 ppm P again.
Click to expand...
Are you talking about elemental N, P and K ppm? Or is it about what we use in this hobby and test kits standards as NO3, PO4 and K?
 
aquanoobie said:
Are you talking about elemental N, P and K ppm? Or is it about what we use in this hobby and test kits standards as NO3, PO4 and K?
Click to expand...
0.5 ppm N is about 2.2 ppm NO3 if KNO3 was used, but I use the following:

1 ppm N:
0.23 N from KNO3 ( 1 ppm NO3)
0.27 N from NH4NO3 (0.6 ppm NO3, rest NH4)
0.5 N from Urea

So as you can see I only dose 1.6 ppm NO3 and rest of it is ammonium based. If only KNO3 was used, it would have been 4.42 ppm NO3. More than 50% of the nitrogen used in my recipe is ammonium based.
 
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