Discus tank

[Kogre]

Will discus be okay in a tank with 1850l/h from a 2078 and 2300l/h from an FX5?

I think I'll go with a black background afterall but may cap my aquasoil with PFS.

 

[roadmaster]

I think the water movement would be a bit much for the Discus .
Could try just one filter, and see how thing's go.I think for these fish,,the FX5 would be plenty.
If sand is smaller grain than the aquasoil? then more than a little sand will eventually find it's way to the bottom and throughout the aquasoil.

 

[Kogre]

I've been looking into substrate still, Akadama topped with PFS is what I'm beginning to lean towards and it'll keep costs down. I may use greenhouse shading to seperate one layer from another; roots will still be able to get to the bottom layer; that is if the akadama is courser than the PFS.

I may use two filters with the flow turned right the way down and do lots more water changes.

 

[flygja]

This sounds like its gonna a really great tank! What I've always dreamed of. Unfortunately I don't have time to feed my discus more than once a day because I leave for work at 6.30 in the morning and won't be back till 6 in the evening. Lights out at 10. Also not willing to feed beef heart so my discus don't grow at all.

I have a black background with ADA Amazonia at the back and white play sand in front. I made a mistake of putting in Congo Tetras before adding the discus, which I think spooked them out and made them shy. Also, i think an excess of CO2 killed at least one of them. Wasn't enough to gas all the other fish, but the discus became lethargic and feel sick. My discus were also constantly looking for shade to hide under!

 

[Kogre]

How high was your CO2 in ppm? I'm looking to achieve around 25ppm. It'll take a while to build up to that as the tank is big, so light can slowly be phased to its highest brightness.

Lighting is a huge problem for me as I'll have loads of it (TMC Gro tiles) but use tall leaning grass and floaters to shade areas. The tank will definitely have to have matured by the time I add discus. I'm in no hurry anyway, this project may take me up to September/October before I've bought everything I need anyway so at least another 6-12 months before discus are added.

As for feeding you don't need to give beef heart, just high protein diet will do it. I think a singular diet would be boring for the fish anyway. My hours away from home are similar to your own but I may use an auto feeder to supplement a midday meal. This only needs to be done while they're in the adolescent stages to boost their growth rate. When they're mature you should be okay to dial back the feedings.

Is there any reason why you're against feeding beef heart?

 

[Dan]

You guys are like sages! Thanks for the links and keep all the information coming (I'll have a read of the linked threads in the evening).

I was originally planning black background and aqua soil (which isn't quite black but does look dark) but then came across information about colours on discus darkening and peppering in some cases. I take it nobody here has experienced this? I may need to cap the aqua soil with PFS but then if I do end up planting into the substrate I imagine it'll be a mess when moving things. At least the discus would colour well?

I've got an order on a tank and need to know for sure whether or not to get a background.

The dark background and black substrate may effect the fish slightly, but not as much as water quality/ good food and general happiness of your fish.
Over the past couple of years I've basically done exactly what your planning on doing but on a slightly smaller scale. What i would say is that if peppering is something you wish to avoid, your best off not going for Pigeon Blood Varients of Discus. These fish are likely to show some peppering under ideal conditions and adding things into consideration like poor stock/water quality/stress/dark substrate and background could possibly make them pepper quite badly. However on the other hand my breeding male lives in a planted tank with black substrate and background and shows very little peppering because he was quality stock to start out with.

So your best off sticking with things like Turq's, Snakeskins and Cobalts. And possibly avoiding the likes of any PB varient/Red Melons/Red Marlborough etc. Any that has come from PB genes.

 

[Dan]

This is honestly a myth, all fish are better in planted tanks (and I really mean all, even if the fish have to be physically separated from the plants, and by plants I mean any photosynthetic organisms), the same also applies to a substrate, there are plenty of advantages, and very few disadvantages.

A lot of successful breeders use bare bottom tanks, are OCD about cleanliness, feed with beef-heart and do huge water changes, but there is a reason for this, they have a specific aim (as fast a growth as possible), to stop their fish "growing out of profit". You can think of it as like battery farming chickens.

Once you have a bare tank you are obliged to keep the tank really clean and do lots of water changes, because you don't have any spare filtration capacity or inherent stability in your system, but this doesn't make it the only way to keep them, or the best system.

If you work from the assumption that Discus originate in very clean, nutrient poor clear and black waters, where food is in short supply and they will eat whatever is available, you can then tailor the tank to their requirements, which aren't necessarily the same as those of a commercial breeder. If you keep away from a beef-heart based diet you can feed them a more natural diet, and a lot of problems disappear.

I'd really recommend having a look at Larry Waybright's ("Apistomaster") Discus threads on various forums ("simplydiscus" etc), he is some-one for whom I have the greatest respect.

Here is his Heckel Discus thread at the "cichlid room companion" <The Cichlid Room Companion • View topic - Heckel Discus "biotope" tank>, and a "Nhamunda Blue" thread: <The Cichlid Room Companion • View topic - New photos of some of my discus>.

cheers Darrel

This ^^
My group was raised getting 2 feeds a day and 1 30% water change per week. No deaths, and only parted with most the group as the 2 largest paired up and kicked seven bells out of the rest.
One thing i would highly recommend however would be a purchase of a HMA filter. Will make things a zillion times easier and it was the best purchase i ever made.

 

[roadmaster]

Raised the group of juveniles I mentioned, with two Hydro IV sponge filter's powered with Luft air pump, and Aquaclear110 HOB filter.

 

[Kogre]

I'll be getting discus for my tank once its matured and as the tank needs lots of flow and co2 to help boost the growth rate of the plants, I'll be using two big filters.

Once the tank has matured can I dial back flow and co2 or will the plants suffer?

 

[roadmaster]

Sorry can't help with CO2 ,it still scares me a bit. I think if it was done slowly,and lighting was not too strong,,that growth would just slow down.
If done quickly,,I shudder to think..

 

[Dan]

I would think there is some middle ground that would be fine for both plants and Discus. I wouldn't have thought it needs to be like a whirlpool to get the plants to grow.
On my 400 litre tank i have a 1400 lph external and a 2000lph external and the flow isn't to bad for the Discus, especially with spray bars fitted, but still gets decent circulation and allows to me play around so i don't get any dead spots.

 

[Kogre]

This will be in the region of 198 gallons and I'm looking to have an Eheim 2078 and an FX5. That might not turn over as much water as yours but I'm hoping it should be sufficient. If discus are okay in the tank with those filters (and I'll only know if I try) then I should be okay, providing there aren't any dead spots as you said.

By the way what's a HMA filter? Is it like an RO unit

 

[Dan]

Similar, i think its short for Heavy Metal Axe, It basically does what a good water condition does, but instead of binding the heavy metals its removes them, along with Chloamine/Chlorine etc. It will save you so much expense and heartache with dead Discus lol.
I'm not sure if your in the UK or not but the guy i buy all my Discus related stuff from has them for a excellent price at the moment.

 

[Kogre]

I live in Derby and work in Birmingham. At present, I don't even have the tank yet. All I have is the desire, some upcoming disposable cash as a result of quitting smoking cold turkey and a very understanding and wonderfully beautiful wife. I've put down a deposit on a tank from ND Aquatics and it has a 6-8 week lead time. That's the first step towards my commitment to a beautiful aquarium.

I'm guessing it'll be August by the time I've bought everything I need for the tank bar the fish. Then once its done cycling I'll add dither fish and some rams/apistogrammas and corydoras. I may acclimate my fire mouth and black ghost knife fish to the new tank so at least I have something to look at until the angels are in.

Once I've planted I'll want the tank to have matured before adding discus, and I'd rather have either all mixed wild purchased at roughly the same size or mixed wild/domestic. I may either save and buy 12-15 discus or buy them at different times as and when I find something appealing.

If this isn't the way to go about it, let me know.

Will I need a large water butt on the end of a HMA filter? The tanks huge man.

 

[Dan]

I've done it both ways regarding water changes, i've got a 200 litre barrel that i used to use, i would fill it up and leave it running with a heater/air pump and then use a large pump to get it into the tank (the barrel was in the shed). Unfortunately when i moved this was no longer viable due to no space to keep the barrell so now i simply run the HMA straight into the tank, i also fill a couple of kettles full of HMA water and boil it so that the temp doesn't drop to much. I do 30% water change weekly on 400 litres, that combined with a couple of kettles full drops my temps from 28 Celsius to around 25.5-26. Fish don't mind and it gets back to temp within a few hours.

 

[Dan]

Oh and regarding your stocking. If your planning on buying young Discus you will have a uphill battle keeping the likes of Angel's and Firemouth with them. Its highly unlikely the Discus will be able to compete with those guys for food, and you will probably only have limited success. You do have a large tank and may be able to work around it by tempting the aggressive feeders to one end and feeding the less aggressive at the other, but it will be difficult. If you can afford to buy adults (or at least 4.5" +fish) you will stand a much better chance of success.

 

[Kogre]

I could keep the fire mouth and angels in the tank they're currently in until the discus grow out, or get rid of them and buy juveniles once the discus have grown?

 

[Dan]

Yes that sounds more sensible, There is always going to be a risk involved with mixing Cichlids, but if you had somewhere to keep the angels/firemouth separate until the Discus got to young Adult size that would give you a better chance. I would never say "get rid" as like anything its a learning curve and what works for one might not for another. Just make sure you have a plan B.

 

[Kogre]

I've read into HMA filters and am beginning to like the sound of them.

Can anyone confirm whether using one changes the pH in a detrimental way?

The cost of this project is slowly creeping up! I'd rather pay up now than pay later on down the road though.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Can anyone confirm whether using one changes the pH in a detrimental way?

They don't effect carbonate hardness, so pH shouldn't be altered. They are just basically a super-duper carbon filter.

A lot of people who use RO for Discus etc, and have hard tap water, use a HMA filter to filter the tap that they then cut their RO with to give them some dGH/dKH.

cheers Darrel