Disease outbreak Sophie's Choice

[LightingBamboozled]

Not quite as bad as sophies choice but.
I moved Neon Tetra's out of a 4 week quarantine on Saturday. I left the 90L tank running and dosed ammonia once to keep as much living bacteria in the filters as possible. Late last night I spotted what appears to be columnaris on one of the neon tetra (Cyst and pale coloration). I immediately isolated him back to the QT. and this morning did a 60% water change on the tank with reasonably heavy vacuum.

I don't have Myxazin on hand but it's arriving Saturday. I intend to dose the main tank and the QT.

Problem is I have 15 Lemon Tetra, 10 yellow cherry shrimp and 3 bamboo shrimp arriving today.

I always intended to put the bamboo shrimp into the main tank (there won't be enough to feed them in any QT). I've set up an old 75L tank as an additional tank for quarntining or meds.
Should I

1) Move the sick neon to the new quarantine with a sponge from the existing QT and quarantine the lemons and cherries in the exisitng 90L QT
2) Move some sponges to the new QT and quarantine the Lemons and Cherries in there
3) Quarantine the Lemons and Cherries in the new QT with uncycled filters to avoid contaminating with columnaris.

Or some other combination of the above.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Not quite as bad as sophies choice

Good film, horrible dilemma and probably not one to watch if you are feeling a <"bit emotionally frail">.

1) Move the sick neon to the new quarantine with a sponge from the existing QT and quarantine the lemons and cherries in the exisitng 90L QT

Probably that one, but definitely not option 3. I'm sorry to hear of your problems, Neon Tetra are now horrible unhealthy things.

Problem is I have 15 Lemon Tetra, 10 yellow cherry shrimp and 3 bamboo shrimp arriving today.

That is a problem, how heavily planted is the 90 litre? Can we have a FTS? It is back to <"Seasoned Tank Time">, but even if the tank is still less "seasoned" than you might have wished <"plenty of oxygen"> is your friend.

left the 90L tank running and dosed ammonia once to keep as much living bacteria in the filters as possible.

You didn't <"need to dose the ammonia">, what do the plants look like?

cheers Darrel

 

[LightingBamboozled]

Recent Shot of the main tank (mid April) will provide a more recent one when lights come on today.

Tank has been running for about 2.5 years. the bulk of the stem plants are recent additions (Early february) as the tank was just a vallis jungle for a long time. Alternanthera isn't fairing well. Restof the plants have pretty good growth althogh the tank is intentionally nitrogen lean. Some green spot algae.

Quarantine and Emergency quarantine are bare bottom unplanted tanks.

90L Established Quarantine has been running for about 3 months. been Nitrogen cycled for 3ppm Ammonia for about 6 weeks, had 18 neons in for 4 weeks until Saturday. Has one stem of water sprite floating in it because it uprooted and I didn't want to throw it away at the time.


Emergency Quarantine set up this morning is similarly bare bottomed although it has two plastic decorations in it for the shrimp to cling to.


Right, Time to move some fish and sponges around then.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Tank has been running for about 2.5 years. the bulk of the stem plants are recent additions (Early february) as the tank was just a vallis jungle for a long time. Alternanthera isn't fairing well. Restof the plants have pretty good growth althogh the tank is intentionally nitrogen lean. Some green spot algae.

I always intended to put the bamboo shrimp into the main tank (there won't be enough to feed them in any QT)

Problem is I have 15 Lemon Tetra, 10 yellow cherry shrimp and 3 bamboo shrimp arriving today.

Thanks for that, I think your best option, by far, is to put all of the new stock into the main tank. It has <"plant / microbe biofiltration"> and is established.

Are there any Neon Tetra still in there? If there are? I'd move them out to the <"90 litre quarantine tank">, the filter should still be operational, if you could add any floating plant (including Lesser Duckweed (Lemna minor)) it would help. I now understand why you added the ammonia, it is the <"Mbuna scenario">, but personally I really try and avoid <"microbe only nitrification">.

I don't have a bare quarantine tank. I'm very keen on quarantine, but I have a <"spare planted tank">, just one that doesn't have any <"permanent fish inhabitants">. When it is empty, I just treat it like all the other tanks, it gets fertiliser etc to keep the plants in growth and water changes (although less frequent that they are for the tanks with inhabitants). The number of tank janitors will fall, but they survive fine without any fish food.

People are worried that it won't be "cycled", but <"established planted tanks are always "cycled"> and you can just add fish to them when you need to.

cheers Darrel

 

[LightingBamboozled]

Thanks for that, I think your best option, by far, is to put all of the new stock into the main tank. It has <"plant / microbe biofiltration"> and is established.

I really don't want to introduce new fish to the main tank a) in case they bring disease and b) as there is likely columnaris in the water and as recent additions they're likely to be stressed enough to succumb to it.

Are there any Neon Tetra still in there? If there are? I'd move them out to the <"90 litre quarantine tank">, the filter should still be operational, if you could add any floating plant (including Lesser Duckweed (Lemna minor)) it would help.

There are still 17 of the neon tetra in the main tank, I've only removed the one showing symptoms. The 90 litre tank is definitely still cycled enough to process nitrogen. I have some frogbit I could move over but as a bare tank with high surface flow floating plants don't tend to do well I might have a look see if I have enough air line to make a protective ring.

I don't have a bare quarantine tank. I'm very keen on quarantine, but I have a <"spare planted tank">, just one that doesn't have any <"permanent fish inhabitants">. When it is empty, I just treat it like all the other tanks, it gets fertiliser etc to keep the plants in growth and water changes (although less frequent that they are for the tanks with inhabitants). The number of tank janitors will fall, but they survive fine without any fish food.

People are worried that it won't be "cycled", but <"established planted tanks are always "cycled"> and you can just add fish to them when you need to.

If I had space for a permanent second tank I would absolutely do it that way and have done before. I'd love to have a tank with plants growing out the top that I could quarantine fish in. Sadly space wise the quarantine tank is in the way. I've got dispensation from the other half to have it running for 6 months to finish stocking the main tank and then it goes back in the loft.

What I have done for today is move the single symptomatic tetra and 1 sponge to the emergency quarantine. Drained and refilled the original quarantine and the aim is to put the lemons and cherries in there. Hopefully there wasn't enough on the surfaces to cause infection and there will be enough nitrogen filtration to support the yellow ones through quarantine.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

There are still 17 of the neon tetra in the main tank, I've only removed the one showing symptoms. The 90 litre tank is definitely still cycled enough to process nitrogen. I have some frogbit I could move over but as a bare tank with high surface flow floating plants don't tend to do well I might have a look see if I have enough air line to make a protective ring.

That makes it even more tricky, I'll be honest it is an unenviable situation. I'd definitely add the Frogbit (and more Water Sprite, if you have it spare?).

I really don't want to introduce new fish to the main tank a) in case they bring disease and b) as there is likely columnaris in the water and as recent additions they're likely to be stressed enough to succumb to it.

I understand that, but <"I think the risk from the Columnaris"> (assuming that is what it is) is less that the risk of putting all that bioload in a bare tank (even one with an established filter).

If I had space for a permanent second tank I would absolutely do it that way and have done before. I'd love to have a tank with plants growing out the top that I could quarantine fish in. Sadly space wise the quarantine tank is in the way. I've got dispensation from the other half to have it running for 6 months to finish stocking the main tank and then it goes back in the loft.

Point taken.

cheers Darrel

 

[LightingBamboozled]

That makes it even more tricky, I'll be honest it is an unenviable situation. I'd definitely add the Frogbit (and more Water Sprite, if you have it spare?).

Will do. I need to trim/harvest Frogbit, Salvinia, Limnophila, Water sprite and java fern at some point soon Will add some to both QTs. Question: I usually don't turn the lights on for 24 hours with new fish in QT. My gut says wait until I'm using the lights to put the plants in. Is that overcautious?

understand that, but <"I think the risk from the Columnaris"> (assuming that is what it is) is less that the risk of putting all that bioload in a bare tank (even one with an established filter).

There I disagree. The lemon's have the possibility to wipe my main tank by bringing in a parasite that spreads before it's symptomatic or a worse disease. Not only would that be very expensive, it could also in worst case mean tearing down the tank and starting again.

Even assuming the Lemon's are healthy on entry. I've QT'd in bare or nearly bare tanks most of my fishkeeping life and never had an issue other than a disease that came in with the stock (Obviously it doesn't work for some stock like fan shrimp). Bare Tanks may not be ideal but they're adequate for most fish kept in the hobby.

Also every time I've seen someone get disease in their tank I've seen significant stock losses. And given I haven't yet confirmed the disease and all I know at the moment is it can affect neon tetra's I'd like to keep as much separation as possible rather than risk both sets of stock on a gamble.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I usually don't turn the lights on for 24 hours with new fish in QT. My gut says wait until I'm using the lights to put the plants in. Is that overcautious?

Leaving the lights off is a always a good idea <"with new stock">. I'd probably add the plants at the start (partially to to give a bit of cover), 24 hours darkness isn't going to make any difference to them.

There I disagree. The lemon's have the possibility to wipe my main tank by bringing in a parasite that spreads before it's symptomatic or a worse disease.

Point taken again, it is just an unenviable position with potential pitfalls in all directions.

Even assuming the Lemon's are healthy on entry. I've QT'd in bare or nearly bare tanks most of my fishkeeping life and never had an issue other than a disease that came in with the stock (Obviously it doesn't work for some stock like fan shrimp). Bare Tanks may not be ideal but they're adequate for most fish kept in the hobby.

Each to their own, I'm just not a bare tank fan (but I am a plant obsessive).

cheers Darrel