Dosing Masterline Aquasoil Phosphate 0 ?

[aquagenetics]

Dear Community,

i'am currently dosing MasterLine - All in One Soil - 1000 ml (5 ml every day) on a 240 liter tank, but i am getting some GSA on the front glass and the back glass.
i checked water parameters, and i was surprised that my phosphate was 0, nitrate was around 20-25, it says it : Contains N, P, K, Mg, Fe, Mn, Zn, B, Cu and Mo
Although i must say i was doing regular water changes, like every 3 days 30% because tropica advised that in the beginning with this soil, this is also the first time i am using an active soil.
i am using tropica aquasoil, i posted a few pics of my tank in Juwel Rio 240 Planted Tank

will update this thread today aswell, with some of the cases i am describing, i am also currently fighting bits of BBA with easycarbo (10 ml everyday)
would also appreciate if i can get tips with that, because i let my co2 come on like 3 hours before lights go on, so my drop checker is green when the lights go on (Also im not sure if im using liquid of 30mg/l coz it doesnt say that on the package)
currently diffusing with a JBL proflora inline diffusor.

If you guys need more information, please let me know
Thanks in advance.

Some pics :

 

[Wookii]

Like most commercial fertilizers, this one looks particularly weak and dilute.

1 ml per 30 litres = 0.4 mg/l NO3, 0.1 mg/l PO4, 0.5 mg/l K, 0.04 mg/l Mg, 0.03 mg/l Fe

Just looking at the PO4, if you are dosing 5ml per day, that's 0.0625 ppm per dose on your 240 litre tank (if my maths is right), or 0.43 ppm per week if you are dosing every day. Compare that to 3.0 ppm per week as the general EI target. On that basis (assuming EI as the target dosing regime) you'd need to increase your daily dose to 35ml per day.

Even if you increase the dose by that (x7) amount, you are still significantly short on the other two macro nutrients - NO3 (12.25ppm/week vs 20ppm/week target), K (15.31ppm/week vs 30ppm/week target), Fe and other micros (assuming Fe is a suitable proxy) will be slightly overdosed, but that's not an issue.

You say you are measuring decent Nitrate levels, but Nitrate test kits are wholly unreliable, so you should just assume your dosing is your only source of nitrate unless you can get a reliable water report from your domestic water supply company.

With such a large tank you are a candidate for mixing your own ferts with dry salts, especially given that expensive Masterline fert is going to cost you almost 10 EUR a week at the 35ml per day that I'd suggest!!

 

[aquagenetics]

Like most commercial fertilizers, this one looks particularly weak and dilute.



Just looking at the PO4, if you are dosing 5ml per day, that's 0.0625 ppm per dose on your 240 litre tank (if my maths is right), or 0.43 ppm per week if you are dosing every day. Compare that to 3.0 ppm per week as the general EI target. On that basis (assuming EI as the target dosing regime) you'd need to increase your daily dose to 35ml per day.

Even if you increase the dose by that (x7) amount, you are still significantly short on the other two macro nutrients - NO3 (12.25ppm/week vs 20ppm/week target), K (15.31ppm/week vs 30ppm/week target), Fe and other micros (assuming Fe is a suitable proxy) will be slightly overdosed, but that's not an issue.

You say you are measuring decent Nitrate levels, but Nitrate test kits are wholly unreliable, so you should just assume your dosing is your only source of nitrate unless you can get a reliable water report from your domestic water supply company.

With such a large tank you are a candidate for mixing your own ferts with dry salts, especially given that expensive Masterline fert is going to cost you almost 10 EUR a week at the 35ml per day that I'd suggest!!

Hey Wookii,

Thanks for your reply, yea im currently dosing approximately half what it says on the bottle, because tropica recommended in the beginning to dose half because alot of nutrients still leak from the soil.
I'am measuring the water parameters with a fresh water test kit, drops is that still unreliable ? before i was using plantedbox ferts i thought this one was less dilluted, since on the package it said to add less.
I would like to mix own ferts, but i thought i needed RO water for that ? which one would you suggest ?

also i see that the normal Masterline is less dilluted, this is probably coz i got the soil version.

MasterLine - All In One

MasterLine All In One and MasterLine All in One Boost are concentrated micro- and macronutrient combination fertilisers for aquatic plants. They contain nitrogen, phosphorus,...

www.aquasabi.com

 

[Zeus.]

i'am currently dosing MasterLine - All in One Soil - 1000 ml (5 ml every day) on a 240 liter tank,

So Masterline yields (mg/L = ppm

240 litre tank needs 8ml to get the the quoted dose and your dosing 5ml/day so you are achieving 5/8 of the quoted dose x7 a week

So you can see your not dosing very much, the tests you have done are unreliable and generally regarded a waste of time in keeping our tanks. the NO3 reading is quite common as our tap water can have quite a bit of NO3 in it for free.

I would advise some DIY ferts for your size tank as it will save you a fortune and you plants will be getting plenty of nutrients.

@Wookii had posted but still posted my thoughts

 

[Wookii]

Hey Wookii,

Thanks for your reply, yea im currently dosing approximately half what it says on the bottle, because tropica recommended in the beginning to dose half because alot of nutrients still leak from the soil.
I'am measuring the water parameters with a fresh water test kit, drops is that still unreliable ? before i was using plantedbox ferts i thought this one was less dilluted, since on the package it said to add less.
I would like to mix own ferts, but i thought i needed RO water for that ? which one would you suggest ?

also i see that the normal Masterline is less dilluted, this is probably coz i got the soil version.

MasterLine - All In One

MasterLine All In One and MasterLine All in One Boost are concentrated micro- and macronutrient combination fertilisers for aquatic plants. They contain nitrogen, phosphorus,...

www.aquasabi.com

Tropica soil does put out a lot of ammonia in the early week or two, but I'm not sure it puts out any phosphate, potassium, or micros though. Your plants are definitely showing some nutrient deficiencies, so I would up your dosing immediately.

You don't need RO water to mix your own ferts, you can use cooled boiled tap water, or buy a bottle of DI water.

You'll find a good article on EI Dosing here: The Estimative Index (EI) Dosing with Dry Salts - you can also find some good further instructions for mixing DIY ferts into dosing liquids here: James' Planted Tank - Estimative Index Explained

If you need more help with it just shout up, there are lots of DIY ferts users on this forum 👍

 

[aquagenetics]

Hey Guys,
I just ordered DIY Salts from a dutch website here : Bemesting, zelf te mengen
On that website you could give in your tank dimensions or liters, and they made a recipe for you. so i am really wondering what will it do for my plants
Thanks for your advice guys, i will start overdosing from today and when the salts arrive i will make 2 bottles of this solution

i attached the PDF with the recipe, i hope you guys can tell me if this will steer me away from any deficiency's

ps : how do i change avatar i couldnt find it in settings.

 

[Wookii]

Hey Guys,
I just ordered DIY Salts from a dutch website here : Bemesting, zelf te mengen
On that website you could give in your tank dimensions or liters, and they made a recipe for you. so i am really wondering what will it do for my plants
Thanks for your advice guys, i will start overdosing from today and when the salts arrive i will make 2 bottles of this solution

i attached the PDF with the recipe, i hope you guys can tell me if this will steer me away from any deficiency's

ps : how do i change avatar i couldnt find it in settings.

You could try plugging those salt quantities into @Zeus.'s Aquarium Fertiliser Calculator to see if the stated ppm's it produces are correct (or if you ask him nicely he may do it for you).

The obvious omission for me is Magnesium, unless you have a decent quantity in your tap water already (again your water company report might confirm). Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4), commonly know as Epsom Salts, can be obtained cheaply from various sources if you wanted to add it into your macro mix.

The ppm's they state are still a little on the lighter side of EI. That shouldn't be an issue whilst you have low plant mass, but once your tank starts filling out I'd probably increase their recommended dose of macros by up to 1/3.

 

[GHNelson]

ps : how do i change avatar i couldnt find it in settings.

Go to Your Account....Click on the Avatar Image....should say edit!

 

[aquagenetics]

Go to Your Account....Click on the Avatar Image....should say edit!

Thankyou Hoggie that worked

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

If you guys need more information, please let me know

Do the new leaves on the plants look pale in real life? or are they just bleached out in the photos?

because i let my co2 come on like 3 hours before lights go on, so my drop checker is green when the lights go on

Just looking at the PO4, if you are dosing 5ml per day, that's 0.0625 ppm per dose on your 240 litre tank (if my maths is right), or 0.43 ppm per week if you are dosing every day. Compare that to 3.0 ppm per week as the general EI target. On that basis (assuming EI as the target dosing regime) you'd need to increase your daily dose to 35ml per day.

Plants can only make use of the extra CO2 if they aren't deficient in any one of the <"other essential nutrients for plant growth">.

I'am measuring the water parameters with a fresh water test kit, drops is that still unreliable ?

<"Titrimetric methods are likely to be better than test papers">, but there may still be <"some issues">, particularly with the monovalent ions (NO3- etc.) where they <"form soluble salts">.

One advantage of both "Estimative Index" and "Duckweed Index" is that they do away with the need to <"accurately test for potentially problematic parameters">.

cheers Darrel

 

[aquagenetics]

Hi all,

Do the new leaves on the plants look pale in real life? or are they just bleached out in the photos?


Plants can only make use of the extra CO2 if they aren't deficient in any one of the <"other essential nutrients for plant growth">.

<"Titrimetric methods are likely to be better than test papers">, but there may still be <"some issues">, particularly with the monovalent ions (NO3- etc.) where they <"form soluble salts">.

One advantage of both "Estimative Index" and "Duckweed Index" is that they do away with the need to <"accurately test for potentially problematic parameters">.

cheers Darrel

No the new leaves do not look pale in real life, thats just the brightness of the light, yea i hope with this new DIY ferts i can get rid of the deficiency's
Thanks for your reply and info.

 

[aquagenetics]

i got another question that may seem weird, do you guys dose when the lights are off or on ? or doesnt this matter at all.
because with easy carbo (gluteraldehyde) i read somewhere that you have to dose it when the lights are off.

 

[GHNelson]

I dose just before I switch the lights on!
Glut is a substitute for injected Co2.......so cant see the point dosing when its dark!
Plus it takes 24 hours to break down!

 

[aquagenetics]

Like most commercial fertilizers, this one looks particularly weak and dilute.



Just looking at the PO4, if you are dosing 5ml per day, that's 0.0625 ppm per dose on your 240 litre tank (if my maths is right), or 0.43 ppm per week if you are dosing every day. Compare that to 3.0 ppm per week as the general EI target. On that basis (assuming EI as the target dosing regime) you'd need to increase your daily dose to 35ml per day.

Even if you increase the dose by that (x7) amount, you are still significantly short on the other two macro nutrients - NO3 (12.25ppm/week vs 20ppm/week target), K (15.31ppm/week vs 30ppm/week target), Fe and other micros (assuming Fe is a suitable proxy) will be slightly overdosed, but that's not an issue.

You say you are measuring decent Nitrate levels, but Nitrate test kits are wholly unreliable, so you should just assume your dosing is your only source of nitrate unless you can get a reliable water report from your domestic water supply company.

With such a large tank you are a candidate for mixing your own ferts with dry salts, especially given that expensive Masterline fert is going to cost you almost 10 EUR a week at the 35ml per day that I'd suggest!!

Update : Started dosing 30ml of this masterline fertilizer, and waiting for my DIY salts to arrive.
Thanks for everyone who gave advice.

 

[aquagenetics]

I got my salts, made the ferts into 2 500 ml bottles yesterday, currently dosing masterline 35ml and then monday gonna start with EI.

 

[aquagenetics]

I mean saturday after a water change im gonna dose EI, i couldnt change my above post i dont see an edit button, so i just typed a new reply.

 

[Vsevolod Stakhov]

Just in case: I dose EI in all my tanks using dry salts, but the tank with soil (Tropica one) always gives 0 PO4 readings (and 0 KH). Tanks on neutral substrates show good levels of PO4, like 2ppm+. Therefore, I assume that aquasoil deposits PO4 inside substrate. Counting that I have no issues with plants growing (even mosses and other reophites) and zero algae, I don't think it is anyhow a problem. But tests results are confusing indeed.