JamesC said:Urea hydolyses to ammonia and carbon dioxide. Bacteria then convert to NO2 then NO3.
I'm presuming that the plants use the urea or ammonia before the bacteria.
JamesC said:I agree totally Tom. I thought for ages it was CO2 and even went to the trouble of putting a diffuser in the tank so the water flow covered the plants in micro bubbles all day. They still wouldn't grow properly. I tried for ages changing CO2 methods and flow but couldn't ever make a certain group of plants grow well. This is why I started looking elsewhere for an answer. The first time I tried the urea dosing I kept the NO3 dosing the same which is why I didn't notice any difference. This last time I reduced the the NO3 dosing right back when I dosed the urea.
I can only comment on what I see in my tank and low NO3 dosing seems to work for me. This isn't to say that CO2 hasn't got something to do with it but I think that my fish are getting a bit fed up with me whilst I'm pushing CO2 levels high. I know I'm not alone with these problems either. I just wish I had more time and money to do some more testing.
The results are quite staggering and very quick to take affect. Here is a stem of rotala rotudifolia that was initial subjected to low NO3 and urea dosing. Then I upped the NO3 and stopped the urea dosing for a while. Then I returned to low NO3 and urea dosing again. It's fairly easy to see where I made the changes.
JamesC said:Just to update this thread a bit. I'm still dosing my tank with urea and seeing no problems whatsoever with it. I'm always curious to see what commercial products use and have just seen today that the Pfertz line use Potassium Nitrate and Urea in their Nitrogen dosing solution. Pfertz are very popular in the US and come highly recommended by many people.
It appears that most of the major dosing systems use either ammonium or urea as a partial source of nitrogen in their solutions. They also use potassium nitrate as well. The list so far includes ADA, Seachem, Tropica and Pfertz. Also other specialised producers like Drak use urea, ammonium and nitrate in their Eudrakon N product. This is popular in Europe.
You may argue that the amounts may be small, but if that's the case why bother adding them at all then? I know some people will say that they just use potassium nitrate and have perfectly healthy tanks and that adding urea is pointless and risking algae, but I have seen a definite improvement in some of my plants.
If you do large water changes because you believe it lowers the ammonia levels to help prevent algae and then dose any of the above products straight afterwards you will be adding much more ammonium/urea back in than you could have possibly removed. Food for thought!!
regards to everyone, btw tom haven't you tested it yourself using UREA as for test? and see the difference with the other one?, i don't have a budget to try out the test but i will give it a shot since it was cheap here in the Philippines (KNO3 is hard to come by + plantex csm+b is also hard to find and badluck nothing at all.), i also post a question of how much urea is safe to dose,Regards,
No.Does it mean we could use it to dose carbon (co2), instead of the pressurised co2 systems?
Yes that is the one, toxic amounts of NH3 long before you get to appreciable amounts of CO2.However i am fearful of the NH3 it creates
I'm not a CO2 (or carbon supplement user) but is "liquid carbon" (glutaraldehyde based) an option?
The impact of it if processed by bacteria would be, like Darrel pointed out, practically none.If dosing UREA gives this reaction : CO(NH2)2 + H2O + urease -> 2NH3 +CO2
Does it mean we could use it to dose carbon (co2), instead of the pressurised co2 systems?..
I see an interest because it brings co2 in the tank.
But i am curious how a plant uses the CO2 when urea is taken up by the plant, and processed inside the plant. Would the CO2 be transported to the Calvin cycle, used in another way or dumped out of the plant?
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