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Dry dosing NPK

MichaelJ

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What I especially dislike is that it hypnotizes people to think in terms of target numbers. Entire religions are spawned around these numbers, just like in the religion of test kits.

Hi @ceg4048 Yes, but If you're a person, such as myself, with only rudimentary knowledge of chemistry and/or biology, I think its perfectly understandable why people get drawn in on "target numbers" and test kits. Unfortunately, there is an abundance of misinformation out there. For instance, such as that high levels of Nitrate or Phosphate causing algae. Take this quote from a very popular PO4 Test Kit, for instance:
"Ideally, the phosphate level should be zero in saltwater aquariums and freshwater aquariums or ponds, including those containing live plants."
... and of course if you do have above-zero phosphate levels they will sell you "remedies" to lower your levels...
If not for my personal experience of helping eradicating algae with very high levels of NPK (granted, in combination with other measures..), I probably would still believe in it, regardless of conflicting anecdotal evidence. With respect to livestock, I am still holding on to certain philosophies (or beliefs, if you will) such as trying to emulate the fish natural habitats with respect to water softness, temperature and to some degree PH, but I am only taking it as far as having those parameters in the ballpark and being much more pragmatic about it than in the past. Since I know approximately what I am putting into the tanks, the only thing I measure on a regular basis now (pre- and post WC) is the TDS (and temperature), but occasionally, I do the test kits as well.

Cheers,
Michael
 
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ceg4048

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Yes, but If you're a person, such as myself, with only rudimentary knowledge of chemistry and/or biology, I think its perfectly understandable why people get drawn in on "target numbers" and test kits. Unfortunately, there is an abundance of misinformation out there. For instance, such as that high levels of Nitrate or Phosphate causing algae. Take this quote from a very popular PO4 Test Kit, for instance:
"Ideally, the phosphate level should be zero in saltwater aquariums and freshwater aquariums or ponds, including those containing live plants."
... and of course if you do have above-zero phosphate levels they will sell you "remedies" to lower your levels...
Yeah mate, I completely agree, and having target numbers is OK as we need some frame of reference. Nothing wrong with that, but folks become obsessed with the targets and that's where the wheels fall off the wagon.
If not for my personal experience of helping eradicating algae with very high levels of NPK (granted, in combination with other measures..), I probably would still believe in it, regardless of conflicting anecdotal evidence.
Exactly, and that is part of the problem we face here. Few are willing to take that leap of faith.

"...No one can be told what The Matrix is...You have to see it for yourself..."

Cheers,
 

Zeus.

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have you ever considered re-writing it in JavaScript so it can run in a browser?

Me and @Hanuman did talk about it once and bearing in mind we both wanted to do the calculator so 'we' could have a better way of calculating our ferts, which showed all the info on one page being able to clone/compare and do custom DIY trace mixes with serial dilutions and remineralising salts also. So thats a lot of info on one page. When I started doing the program Excel seemed the obvious choice, although I've never been trained to use it just picked up whats needed on a ad hoc basis. Hani cam to the rescue when he cracked the hidden/unknown test which I had set - he smashed it and offered his help, which I took up without hesitation, I class Hani as a 'guru' at Excel , but he says he's not compared to others. Excel needs no internet to run and does the job and it saves everything to do, one of the PITAs with Rotala was having to add your data each time which can lead to errors. So having a stand alone Excel spreadsheet makes a lot of sense and 'most' folk have excel. The thought of doing it in 'Java' or other software I personally dismiss straight away as I never used Java and the calculator does everything I need. We did discuss doing a mobile/lite version but why dilute your best effort.

If someone comes along cracks the 'test' and offers to do a Java version - well that's another story;)
 

MichaelJ

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If someone comes along cracks the 'test' and offers to do a Java version - well that's another story;)
Hi @Zeus ... And what 'test' might that be? ... it better be challenging :)

Exactly, and that is part of the problem we face here. Few are willing to take that leap of faith.

Hi @ceg4048 , In my head I can hear you say:

"...I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it..."

Cheers,
Michael
 
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Zeus.

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Hi @Zeus ... And what 'test' might that be? ... it better be challenging
If you need to ask for the test you fail, for the person with the right skillset it isn't hard.
 

MichaelJ

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MichaelJ

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If you need to ask for the test you fail, for the person with the right skillset it isn't hard.
Hi @Zeus, I knew there was a Harry Potter reference in there... :lol: Anyway, If you ever need help with a JS implementation I might be helpful for fun and leisure ... In the daytime I am mostly a C++ and low-level GPU (AI), math (PDE) kind of guy though, and my biology and chemistry knowledge is fairly limited, but I do enjoy the hobby a lot :)
Cheers,
Michael
 

Happi

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@MichaelJ

here is the Product sheet for the fertilizer that you are currently using. that color you are seeing could be a dye, they usually add these in their fertilizers. blue, green, brown are quite common color they use.

Product Sheet:

Full detail about the product:


Here is the quick comparison if you were to dose 0.56 ppm Fe vs 0.1 ppm Fe

Fe 0.56 vs 0.1
Mn 0.15 vs 0.0267
B 0.016 vs 0.00285
Zn 0.07 vs 0.0125
Cu 0.015 vs 0.00267
Mo 0.002 vs 0.000357
 
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MichaelJ

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@MichaelJ

here is the Product sheet for the fertilizer that you are currently using. that color you are seeing could be a dye, they usually add these in their fertilizers. blue, green, brown are quite common color they use.

@Happi, Thanks for the info. Yeah, it could be. I've used it in both my tanks for a couple of times now and I haven't noticed the water taking on color from this, so thats good.


Thanks for the info!

Full detail about the product:


Here is the quick comparison if you were to dose 0.56 ppm Fe vs 0.1 ppm Fe

Fe 0.56 vs 0.1
Mn 0.15 vs 0.0267
B 0.016 vs 0.00285
Zn 0.07 vs 0.0125
Cu 0.015 vs 0.00267
Mo 0.002 vs 0.000357

Are you suggesting that I up my dose? I am currently dosing 0.5g of this compound per 150L twice a week - based on @Zeus calculations above for this CustomHydro product (0.6g per 100 L) that should amount to Fe 0.15 ppm per dose or Fe 0.3 ppm. per week.

EDIT: I used to dose Tropica Premium (20-26 ML twice a week) which according to the dosing calculator gave me ~0.24 ppm. Fe weekly.



Cheers,
Michael
 
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Happi

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in case if anyone is Interested


Fe 0.1

Mn 0.02857

Zn 0.00571

Cu 0.001428

B 0.0185

Mo 0.00085

if you want to experiment further in the future, try this product and get additional Zn EDTA and Nickel with it.
 

Happi

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@Happi, Thanks for the info. Yeah, it could be. I've used it in both my tanks for a couple of times now and I haven't noticed the water taking on color from this, so thats good.



Thanks for the info!



Are you suggesting that I up my dose? I am currently dosing 0.5g of this compound per 150L twice a week - based on @Zeus calculations above for this CustomHydro product (0.6g per 100 L) that should amount to Fe 0.15 ppm per dose or Fe 0.3 ppm. per week.

Cheers,
Michael

oh no, those numbers were just for comparison. you can use whatever suggestion was already given to you by other members. if it was me suggesting those numbers, it would be somewhere around 0.1 - 0.2 ppm Fe weekly depending on the other parameters.
 

MichaelJ

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in case if anyone is Interested


Fe 0.1

Mn 0.02857

Zn 0.00571

Cu 0.001428

B 0.0185

Mo 0.00085

if you want to experiment further in the future, try this product and get additional Zn EDTA and Nickel with it.
@Happi, Thanks I will keep that in mind.
 

MichaelJ

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your CustomHydro trace @ 0.6grams per 100Litres yeilds
1629310930678.png
@Zeus. I was just re-visiting this thread as I was wondering about my Fe dosing which I might want to tweak a bit upwards. I was wondering if you might have gotten the the Cu content wrong when you ran the CustomHydro Trace mix for me? Looks really high.

EDIT: Ok, I think the correct value for Cu at 0.6g/100L should have been 0.00750 ppm... everything else checks out.

Cheers,
Michael
 
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Zeus.

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@Zeus. I was just re-visiting this thread as I was wondering about my Fe dosing which I might want to tweak a bit upwards. I was wondering if you might have gotten the the Cu content wrong when you ran the CustomHydro Trace mix for me? Looks really high.

EDIT: Ok, I think the correct value for Cu at 0.6g/100L should have been 0.00750 ppm... everything else checks out.

Cheers,
Michael
1629313578164.png

1629313637453.png


So yes I did :oops: sorry about that which is why we don't release updates until @Hanuman has check my work.
the correct ppms for 0.6gram per 100litres
1629314057439.png

Have also correct earlier post.

@MichaelJ many thanks for asking - we all make errors from time to time - Sorry :arghh::banghead:💩
 

MichaelJ

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View attachment 173273
View attachment 173274

So yes I did :oops: sorry about that which is why we don't release updates until @Hanuman has check my work.
the correct ppms for 0.6gram per 100litres
View attachment 173276
Have also correct earlier post.

@MichaelJ many thanks for asking - we all make errors from time to time - Sorry :arghh::banghead:💩
Hi @Zeus. Thanks a big bunch for double checking this... and no worries about any errors! ... my plants do not look disappointed at all :lol: I was deliberately holding back a bit on dosing this (currently doing 0.5g/151L twice per week) as I was worried that the Cu content could be an issue for my shrimps (which are now breeding as well..), but then I worried that I might be starving my plants on especially Fe... However plants are all doing fine after using this for well over a month now ... In any event, so I believe I can safely up the dose a bit... I think I am going to target 0.5 ppm Fe / weekly instead of the current 0.3 ppm. as some of my plants are getting really huge (especially the Echinodorus) with no leaves struggling apparently.

Anyway, thanks again!

Cheers,
Michael
 

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