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EI Advice - shopping list and measurements

madlan

madlan

Member
Joined
29 Sep 2010
Messages
241
Location
Stevenage, Hertfordshire
Hi All,

I'm starting to plan my dosing regime in preparation for my new setup. Could you check my chemicals and measurements are ok below?

My tank volume is 323 litres, and hi-tech (4x T5 (54w) with Co2 (via an AM1000))
Dosing will be automated from a single solution via a Williamson dosing pump that I’ve measured to 2ml a minute consistently.

My shopping list is:
Potassium nitrate
Potassium sulphate
mono potassium phosphate
Magnesium sulphate
Trace Elements
Ascorbic Acid
Potassium Sorbate

Are these all required? Anything else I should be adding? The water is quite hard here so not sure if that negates the MgSO4?

My tap water is:
pH 7.2
GH 340 mg/L (ppm)
KH 260 mg/L (ppm)

Based on my understanding of LondonDragons thread and using NutriCalc I believe I need to dose these amounts daily:

KNO3 (Potassium nitrate) = (5.3x35x3)/7 = 79.5g
K2S04 (Potassium sulphate) = (2.4x35x3)/7 = 36g
KH2PO4 (mono potassium phosphate) = (1.5x35x3)/7 = 22.5g
MgSO4 (Magnesium sulphate) = (13.8x35x3)/7 = 207g
Trace = (1x35x3)/7 = 15g
How much Ascorbic Acid and Potassium Sorbate will I need?

I’m stuck on what volume of water I need to dissolve the above in and how many minutes to set the timer for (based on 2ml a minute), if anyone could advise?
 
Hi madlan
madlan said:
Based on my understanding of LondonDragons thread and using NutriCalc I believe I need to dose these amounts daily:

KNO3 (Potassium nitrate) = (5.3x35x3)/7 = 79.5g
K2S04 (Potassium sulphate) = (2.4x35x3)/7 = 36g
KH2PO4 (mono potassium phosphate) = (1.5x35x3)/7 = 22.5g
MgSO4 (Magnesium sulphate) = (13.8x35x3)/7 = 207g
Trace = (1x35x3)/7 = 15g
Click to expand...
:wideyed:
Seems like an awful lot to be dosing daily.
If you went full on EI, from the EI dosing tutorial, a 20 gallon tank only needs 9/16 of a teaspoon of KNO3 per week. As your is an 85 gallon tank (call it 90 gallon and multiply everything by 4.5), you will only need about 2.5 teaspoons per week, which is about 15g.
Haven't checked the rest, but at a glance they look high to me.

madlan said:
Are these all required?
Click to expand...
Most of us don't use the K2SO4 as it is only used for it's K content. As you've already got KNO3 just add more of that, as that has K in it too. One less thing to buy :D .

madlan said:
Anything else I should be adding?
Click to expand...
You've got it all covered.

madlan said:
he water is quite hard here so not sure if that negates the MgSO4?
Click to expand...
I would suggest you start your first batch using it and gradually back it off a bit each time you mix a batch and keep an eye out for any deficiencies in the plants. The chances are you won't need it in a hard water area.

Perhaps you could give us the link to LD's thread, ( I can't say I remember it :oops: ) and we''ll see where you went wrong.
madlan said:
How much Ascorbic Acid and Potassium Sorbate will I need?
Click to expand...
This is dependent on how much water you end up using. The general rule of thumb is 0.5g of Ascorbic Acid and 0.2g Potassium Sorbate per 500ml of solution.

To give you a rough idea, on a 180l, I use 6 teaspoons KNO3 (about 36g), 2 teaspoons KH2PO4 (about 12g) and 1.5 teaspoons (about 10g), chuck it all in a bottle (500ml) with 0.5g of Ascorbic Acid and 0.2g Potassium Sorbate and dose 20ml per day every day. That lasts me 25 days.
As the EI tutorial states, nothing is set in stone, as long as you get those amounts into the tank per month, at regular intervals, it's job done.
I went away from dosing Macros and Trace on alternate days, cos I'm a bit hazy in the mornings and can never remember did I dose this or that yesterday :lol: .
As my tank is approximately half the size of yours, just double up on everything, including the water and dose 50ml per day, every day (set your timer for 25 minutes).
Any other queries, just holler :D .
 
That's great Chris, makes much more sense now!

That was meant to read monthly rather than weekly! Here’s the thread I mentioned: http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=5024
As you can see I've just scaled up from LD's values.

NEW shopping list is:
Potassium nitrate
mono potassium phosphate
Magnesium sulphate
Trace Elements
Ascorbic Acid
Potassium Sorbate

Dosing solution will be:

KNO3 (Potassium nitrate) = 72g
KH2PO4 (mono potassium phosphate) = 24g
MgSO4 (Magnesium sulphate) = 207g
Trace = 20g

I was thinking of using 500ml of water and doubling on your levels so the pump was on for less time. 13 minutes would give me 26ml of double dose. What do you think? Or would it be saturated in 500ml? I could replace the hose on the pump to give 4.5ml\min to reduce the amount of time the pumps running if required.

Are there any issues making several months of solution up at a time?
Any recommendations for a supply of trace elements?
Do I dose these levels from day one?

Thanks again,
Alan
 
Hi Alan
madlan said:
That was meant to read monthly
Click to expand...
Phew :D

madlan said:
I was thinking of using 500ml of water and doubling on your levels so the pump was on for less time.
Click to expand...
I can see where you're heading with this. Check out this link James Planted Tank for maximum saturation of any of the given powders. You need to go to Dosing methods/Dosing calculator and scroll to the bottom of the page. Can't post a direct link on my PC at work :(
I think you're inside the values quoted.

madlan said:
Are there any issues making several months of solution up at a time?
Click to expand...
I've only ever made up a 2 month batch, but James states that his All in One solution stays clear and bright for up to 6 months. The chemicals are the same, just that the mix is a lot stronger :D

madlan said:
Any recommendations for a supply of trace elements?
Click to expand...
Site sponsors, Aquaessentials or Fluidsensoronline. I've used both and both work well.

madlan said:
Do I dose these levels from day one?
Click to expand...
Now there seems to be some differing opinions on this one, but personally I aways start from day one.
My theory is, I want to give my plants the best start possible, so I don't want them wasting their energy scavenging for nutrients with the risk of suffering an algae attack. Has never caused me any problems :D
 
Thanks Chris, very helpful. I've ordered 1kg of each, except the trace (250g) and preservatives (50g each). Should last a while!

I'll let you know how it goes once I start mixing\dosing!

Thanks
Alan
 
Hi Alan
madlan said:
Should last a while!
Click to expand...
A long while :lol:
madlan said:
I'll let you know how it goes once I start mixing\dosing!
Click to expand...
Always interested to hear how you get on :D
When you mix your first batch, you will find you have loads left in the tubs or bags and you will quickly realise that it's going to last you ages :D
As far as quantities go you will use them the most in this order
MgSO4 (but you may well get this down to zero eventually)
KNO3 followed by
KH2PO4 followed by
Trace
All of a sudden it is very cheap to dose a planted tank :D
 
Ta da!



Clockwise: Potassium nitrate, mono potassium phosphate, Magnesium sulphate, Ascorbic Acid, Potassium Sorbate, Trace Elements.
 
Hi Alan
madlan said:
It doesn't calculate for a single solution dosed daily, looks great otherwise.
Click to expand...
Then let's work it out :lol: .

According to the calculator linked to in the previous post, using your original figure of 323 litres, you need to dose the following per week
15g KNO3
5.7 KH2PO4
36g MgSo4
2.6g Trace

Multiply all that by 4 for a 4 week supply
60g KNO3
22.8g KH2PO4
144g MgSO4
10.4g Trace

Don't forget to add your 1g of Ascorbic Acid and 0.4g of Poatassium Sorbate as well.
Now if you add that lot to 1000ml water and divide by 28 (days in 4 weeks), this gives you you're daily dose.
1000/28 = 35.7ml per dose. I don't know how you'll measure that crazy number, so I would just dose 40ml per day and have done with it.
If you were to use their "stock solution' figures, you would be mixing Macros once a fortnight. Using these figures you will only have to mix it up one bottle once every 4 weeks :D

No need to worry about being mega precise.
The original EI stuff is based on plant uptake in a high light, 5-6wpg at 12 hours a day. If you run any less (either wpg or hours), which just about all of us do, then you will actually be overdosing anyway.
I've been doing this for about 3 months now and haven't seen any negative effects :D .

As the whole idea of making the solution acidic to prevent the Phosphates reacting with the Trace, I always put the Ascorbic acid in first. The rest can go in, in any order you like :D

So there you have it. Clear as mud :lol:
 
Thanks Chris, thats helped I think! :lol:

I've got 4 x 54w T5 lights over 323 litres so thats about 3wpg? Running Co2 at about 30ppm.
Do you leave the solution with Ascorbic acid for any length of time before adding the rest?

Thanks
 
Hi Alan
madlan said:
I've got 4 x 54w T5 lights over 323 litres so thats about 3wpg? Running Co2 at about 30ppm.
Click to expand...
:wideyed: Thats a lot of light, especially being T5's. You'll need to be on top of your game with the maintenance. Might be an idea to start off with 2 lamps and go up to 4 lamps when you have everything like CO2 delivery and flow etc. sorted out.
madlan said:
Do you leave the solution with Ascorbic acid for any length of time before adding the rest?
Click to expand...
The solution goes acidic as soon as you add the Ascorbic acid, so no need to wait.
I just give a little shake to mix it with the water properly and then just add everything else :D
 
Use 1/2 this light amount. :idea:

More than enough to grow anything well.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
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