Filter Upgrade?

[IrvineHimself]

Now that my new (1st ever) tank is becoming stocked, I am more fully aware of the habitat requirements of my little oddballs. While planning out my next plants and where to put them, it occurred to me that between 5% and 10% of potential habitat is occupied by my sponge filter and heater. As a consequence, I am considering investing in a combined "Cannister Filter plus Heater". (Ideally, it would integrate with smart home hubs like Alexa or Nest.)

Anyway, if I go through with the upgrade, it is going to take a significant amount of planning to carry out successfully. So, noting that I have only just started to think this through, does anyone have any suggestions with regard to:

1. What is the best way to transfer the beneficial bacteria from my old sponge filter to new cannister filter?
2. Suggestions and/or warnings of potential pitfalls.

Since it could affect any advice given, my latest plant list is:

• Weeping Moss
• Christmas Moss
• Red Root Floaters
• Cabbage Floaters
• Anubis Hastifolia
• Anubis Lanceola
• Anubis Coin
• Several Anubis Nana, (some of which are not doing too well)
• Several Bucephalandra (Green velvet)
• Several Pygmy Bucephalandra
• Cryptocoryne Nevelli
• Lobelia Cardinalis
• Assorted stem plants. (See below)

Without making any changes to the filter, simply by moving a couple of rocks which currently sit under the heater, I have room for about three more medium sized Epiphytes. When combined with the Weeping Moss Liana and hardscape, the Epiphytes provide jungle like barriers between four distinct habitats. The current 'grass like' stem plants were an afterthought to help camouflage the sponge filter and heater.

If I go forward with this, until I can think of something better to put there, I would move the collection of stem plants into the space formerly occupied by the heater. With the space liberated by the sponge filter and it's camouflage, I would like to find a 'dwarf grass' which can be easily manicured to between 2 and 5 centimetres long

My current livestock along with the target stocking level are

• 4*Kuhli Loach
• 4*Hovering Loach (Target: 8)
• 5*Pygmy Cory (Target: 9)
• 3*Rock Goby (Target: 6)
• 10*Endlers
• 5 X-ray Tetras
• Assorted Neocaridina. (Now that I know more about it, I want to replace them with Ghost shrimp)

Irvine

 

[FrozenShivers]

Hard to advise on a filter when you haven’t mentioned your aquarium size. Oase and Eheim do inbuilt heaters leaving you with more space, many believe Eheim quality has fallen off. Failing that you’d have to go inline. Are you injecting CO2? If so, this will increase the flow you demand from filter.

For transferring filter, I believe you would just transfer your biological from old filter to new and squeeze all the gunky water into new filter, happy to be corrected though.

Good luck!

 

[IrvineHimself]

Hard to advise on a filter when you haven’t mentioned your aquarium size.

It's a 90 litre tank 60*40*40 cm

Oase and Eheim do inbuilt heaters leaving you with more space

It's actually either the Oase 100 & 200 I am looking at. There is not much difference in price, and, according to the blurb, either would be suitable for my tank size?

Are you injecting CO2?

At the moment no.

Mainly for the intellectual exercise, I did build a DIY system. However, after further research, I realised that, because of the inbuilt relay, the F-Zone CO2 generator lends itself to integration with my smart hub. So, I would most likely be buying the F-zone system at the same time as I bought the new cannister filter. Budgeting constraints would then force a four week hiatus in planting/stocking, giving me four weeks to get the new system settled in.

For transferring filter, I believe you would just transfer your biological from old filter to new and squeeze all the gunky water into new filter, happy to be corrected though.

Therein lies my problem: Currently I have a sponge filter, so squeezing gunky water into the new filter is not a problem, but "transferring your biological from old filter to new"? How would I do that:

• Cut up sponge filter and use it to seed the biological material in the new filter?
• Run both filters in tandem until new filter is seeded?
• Some other method?

Thanks for the reply
irvine

 

[FrozenShivers]

It's actually either the Oase 100 & 200 I am looking at. There is not much difference in price, and, according to the blurb, either would be suitable for my tank size?

Generally speaking, there is a lot of loss in flow from what filters are advertised, due to head height and restrictions etc. Actual flow is often around half of that stated by manufacturer. Since it seems you're going to be going high tech in the near future, I would aim for nearer x10 tank volume being circulated per hour, so nearer 900lph. The Filtosmart 200 is rated 800lph so should be fine, I've never used that series though (I have 2 Fluval 207's and a Biomaster Thermo 850).

At the moment no.

Mainly for the intellectual exercise, I did build a DIY system. However, after further research, I realised that, because of the inbuilt relay, the F-Zone CO2 generator lends itself to integration with my smart hub. So, I would most likely be buying the F-zone system at the same time as I bought the new cannister filter. Budgeting constraints would then force a four week hiatus in planting/stocking, giving me four weeks to get the new system settled in.

As stated above, if you're going to be going high tech then having some extra flow will be required.

Therein lies my problem: Currently I have a sponge filter, so squeezing gunky water into the new filter is not a problem, but "transferring your biological from old filter to new"? How would I do that:

• Cut up sponge filter and use it to seed the biological material in the new filter?
• Run both filters in tandem until new filter is seeded?
• Some other method?

Apologies, forgot that you said sponge filter, so there won't be any normal biomedical in it, I've never used a sponge filter, I would think the easiest solution is to just temporarily use the sponge filter as well as your new filter until it can cope on it's own? Failing that see if a local LFS could help seed your new filter for you

 

[Hufsa]

If your new external filter is big enough then an option might be to plonk the whole sponge from the internal filter into one of the baskets of the external filter. So combining new and old filter media.
You can keep it running in there for at least two months or so, that should ensure the rest of the new filter media is up to the task. Then you remove the old sponge and put whatever was originally supposed to be in that basket in.

 

[IrvineHimself]

If your new external filter is big enough then an option might be to plonk the whole sponge from the internal filter into one of the baskets of the external filter. So combining new and old filter media.
You can keep it running in there for at least two months or so, that should ensure the rest of the new filter media is up to the task. Then you remove the old sponge and put whatever was originally supposed to be in that basket in.

i was thinking along similar lines: Basically, cut the 'sponge' so that it can replace the mechanical filtration sponges of the cannister filter. Then, once the Biological filter media is fully seeded, I can replace the cut up sponge with the proper mechanical filter material.

I would aim for nearer x10 tank volume being circulated per hour, so nearer 900lph. The Filtosmart 200 is rated 800lph so should be fine,

That is interesting. Out of curiosity: If I was to make a gravel bed along where the heater currently resides and position a 'Spin Outflow' close to the gravel, would a flow of 8 or 9 hundred litres per hour be fast enough to keep Hillstream Loaches?

 

[MrClockOff]

Btw you can make any aquarium gadget compatible with home hub e.g. Alexa using TP-Link Tapo P100 smart plug

Amazon product ASIN B0875CTMGH
All my gadgets are connected through those plugs (except light as it already has timer/dimmer). I can control the plugs with mobile app or directly with Alexa. Plug itself has a lot of features eg. schedules, start after or stop after etc. Useful if you tend to forget to enable filter back after maintenance

 

[IrvineHimself]

... except light as it already has timer/dimmer...

I'm using an IP-67, RGB+daylight floodlight that works with the TP-Link app [hence, Google Home]. It makes setting up a custom light schedule a breeze

 

[IrvineHimself]

Okay, I slept on this a bit and, after doing some more research, I am starting to get a clearer idea on how to go about what is fast becoming a highly desirable upgrade.

Firstly, there are many YouTube videos on pimping up cannister filters to improve efficiency. This video is for the FiltoSmart 300 and gives a fairly good breakdown of how the FiltoSmart series of filters work. On the basis of this and many similar videos and articles, I am planning on using this as a guide to replace the filter media with Seachem Matrix and Seachem Purigen, along with filter floss and/or filter sponge.

There is also lots of advice on priming the Seachem Matrix with beneficial bacteria, most of which seems to be promoting snake-oil bacterial boosters. One thing did catch my eye though, where a YouTuber used gunk from his existing filter to seed the Seachem Matrix. Essentially, in my case, I would squeeze my existing sponge filter into a container with the pumice stone and leave it to soak for 24 hours [until it sinks]. I would then use this material to rebuild the FiltoSmart with the new media.

If I then insert a thumbnail valve on the airline to the sponge filter, I can run both filters in tandem as I gradually cut back the the flow rate to the old filter.

Noting I am a total noob, any comments on this plan [along with potential problems] are welcome by the way.
Irvine

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Firstly, there are many YouTube videos on pimping up cannister filters to improve efficiency. This video is for the FiltoSmart 300 and gives a fairly good breakdown of how the FiltoSmart series of filters work.

We will have to differ in opinion about him. <"Richard (the PondGuru)"> gets a <"few mentions on the forum">. I'll be charitable and <"say he has a product to sell">, and that that product is probably perfectly <"fine for aerobic nitrification in a canister filter">.

As a side note <"his web-site"> still says:

..... Do not worry about plant growth being affected in a tank which reads zero nitrates - the nitrate is processed into soluble nitrogen which is easily used by plants, boosting their growth.....

Which raises <"all sort of alarm bells for me">.

On the basis of this and many similar videos and articles, I am planning on using this as a guide to replace the filter media with Seachem Matrix and Seachem Purigen.......

Have a look at <"Aquarium Science">, his planted pages aren't great, but he is very good on <"biological filtration">, mainly because he keeps big, messy fish at <"insane stocking rates">.

Matrix is fine, but expensive <"Is expensive bio media worth it?">. I like <"some tannins"> so I'm not a Purigen user. As well as the PondGuru I also have a bit of an issue with <"Seachem's advertising">.

One thing did catch my eye though, where a YouTuber used gunk from his existing filter to seed the Seachem Matrix. Essentially, in my case, I would squeeze my existing sponge filter into a container with the pumice stone and leave it to soak for 24 hours [until it sinks]. I would then use this material to rebuild the FiltoSmart with the new media.

Good idea.

most of which seems to be promoting snake-oil bacterial boosters.

We have a thread where we talked to Dr Tim Hovanec <"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments about Bacterial supplements">.

along with filter floss and/or filter sponge.

I'm not personally a filter floss (or very fine sponge (PPI 30 or greater)) fan. It is fine as long as you change / clean it frequently, but I'm always worried that <"out of sight will be out of mind as well">. I much prefer a <"pre-filter for mechanical filtration">, it just means that they are easy to get at and you don't need to <"continually open the filter body">.

cheers Darrel

 

[IrvineHimself]

We will have to differ in opinion about him. <"Richard (the PondGuru)">

I always treat YouTubers with a great deal of scepticism. The reason I linked to that particular video wasn't because I thought what he said was accurate, but rather because he disaasembled and then rebuilt a Oase FiltoSmart series filter. I have never seen one before, and it gave me a basic idea for what I will need in the way of mechanical/biological filter material.

I'm not personally a filter floss (or very fine sponge (PPI 30 or greater)) fan

Yeah, I posted the above hoping for little nuggets like this. I can definitely see the attraction in using a coarse grained pre-filter sponge for mechanical filtration.

Matrix is fine, but expensive

I actually have a 10 litre tub of Perlite for my house-plants. Strictly speaking perlite is not pumice, but it is formed in pretty much the same way, resulting in a material with very similar mechanical properties. So, when I realised what Matrix was composed of I humorously thought about using Perlite instead ...

Thanks for the input
Irvine

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The reason I linked to that particular video wasn't because I thought what he said was accurate, but rather because he disaasembled and then rebuilt a Oase FiltoSmart series filter. I have never seen one before, and it gave me a basic idea for what I will need in the way of mechanical/biological filter material.

Fair enough, I really struggle with him and I am probably not an entirely objective observer. I just clicked on the link and saw him and that was enough, I had to have a <"cup of coffee"> and <"some uplifting music">.

I actually have a 10 litre tub of Perlite for my house-plants. Strictly speaking perlite is not pumice, but it is formed in pretty much the same way, resulting in a material with very similar mechanical properties. So, when I realised what Matrix was composed of I humorously thought about using Perlite instead ...

Perlite floats, but that would probably be the major reason for not using it. If it was contained it would be fine. I've used <"Kaldnes K1"> type <"floating cell media"> in lots of my filters. I used to use <"hydroleca in my trickle filters">, and if I ever go back to them? I will use it again.

I can definitely see the attraction in using a coarse grained pre-filter sponge for mechanical filtration.

I just want <"dissolved oxygen and ammonia entering the filter"> and once it is in the filter I just want to ensure that there is <"always enough oxygen"> to complete nitrification, <"the conversion of NH3 > NO2- > NO3-">.

I'd go as far as to ay that nothing else matters as much.

cheers Darrel

 

[IrvineHimself]

Have a look at <"Aquarium Science">.....

It might take me a while, but I do read the links you provide

So, in the light of that article, for the best results: Just build the cannister with the supplied foam and fill it with a couple of litres of juice squeezed through the old sponge. Then, leave it to sit for 24 hours before switching it on so that my bacteria can start to colonises the foam. Also, as before, while the new filter is settling in, I can run the sponge filter in tandem.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

It might take me a while, but I do read the links you provide

I haven't read the whole Aquarium Science web site. I've probably read 75% of the entire UKAPS content, purely because I've been a member for a long time.

Then, leave it to sit for 24 hours before switching it on so that my bacteria can start to colonises the foam

No, I wouldn't leave it that long, just in case the water becomes deoxygenated. If you can put the old foam in the new filter? I would, if you can't? Just put it <"loose in the tank"> after you've squeezed it out.

I would squeeze out the old sponges, swirl the new sponges in the squeezings, pop them in the filter and turn it on, simple as that.

cheers Darrel

 

[bazz]

I just clicked on the link and saw him and that was enough, I had to have a <"cup of coffee"> and <"some uplifting music">.

 

[IrvineHimself]

Well, the filter arrived last night... After sleeping on it [and rinsing], my final plan of action is to commence by soaking the new sponge material in the tank for 24 hours. Then, use the old sponge material to squeeze a couple of litres tank water into a bucket. I can then suck the slop into new material and use any residue to start filling the cannister with aquarium water..

I have a question however concerning flow rate/path and the supplied activated carbon [or purigen]: Basically, if it is well designed, a filter forces the water to follow a particular path which provides surface area appropriate for the rate of flow. However, noting these 'Aquarium Science' chapters on activated carbon and purigen, in this case a part of the path does very little in terms of providing surface area. While I am initially going to build the filter as directed by the manufacturer, Is there something that would provide a similar resistance to water flow, but be easier/cheaper to maintain?

 

[bazz]

Well, the filter arrived last night

Hi,
If you have purchased one of the Thermo FiltoSmart 100/200/300 filter series I personally do not and would not use any media in the heater compartment and ALWAYS ensure the heater has been switched off for at least 5 minutes before turning off the filter.
I have burnt out a heater before in a 200 and heard on this forum that someone had actually melted the plastic casing.
If it's not the the Thermo model then I'll shut up.
Cheers!

 

[IrvineHimself]

If you have purchased one of the Thermo FiltoSmart 100/200/300 filter series

Yes it was!

You wouldn't use media in the heater compartment? ..... Is that because of overheating?

With regard to the installation/upgrade process [as outlined above]:
I soaked the sponges in the tank for 24 hours, and also soaked the ceramic media and activated carbon in a Tupperware carton of tank juice. Then, I used the old sponge to soak up tank water with which I poured into the heater compartment hole. This left the tank pretty cloudy. Once it started to clear, I had the idea of, rather than leaving the old sponge in the tank, just give it a couple of squeezes directly into the tank and remove.

During the afternoon/evening, I kept checking the ammonia and nitrite levels, but they barely budged. So, now this morning, after running the tank purely with the new filter for over twenty hours, my levels are all zero

This proved to be quite easy, I was a bit worried about possibly having to partially re-cycle the tank while the new filter was broken in, but, as always, having a good plan made the process very simple. Thanks for your excellent advice
Irvine

 

[bazz]

You wouldn't use media in the heater compartment? ..... Is that because of overheating?

Yes, don't ask me why I saw fit to half fill the heater compartment with a 50/50 mixture of Ceramic Rings and Substrat Pro but the result was inconsistent temperature closely followed by total heater failure.

 

[IrvineHimself]

don't ask me why I saw fit to half fill the heater compartment with a 50/50 mixture of Ceramic Rings and Substrat Pro

Thank you for being honest, you are a member with true integrity. Given the info and direction this thread took, I was wondering if that was what happened. In particular, since it is relevant to my question concerning replacing the 'activated carbon'. I was considering trying to see if I could link 'filter pimping' with 'heater failure'