Finding the balance

[D.Bezinski]

Hi all,

As you can see from the pictures, I have problems finding the balance between water parameters, light and fertilizers.
The main issues are Algae and poor plant growth.
Tank - 200L. Set up about 10 months ago
Filtration - Oase Biomaster 600 - 3L Seachem Matrix + about 1L JBL Micromec + 250ml Purigen
Light - Fluval Plant 3.0 - 46 watts
- Sunrise - 13:00-14:00
- Daylight - Pink 25%; Blue 5%; Cold White 50%; Pure White 50%; Warm White 50%
- Sunset - 20:00-21:00
Substrate - Tropica
Pressurized CO2 - Yes. 4-5 bubbles per sec.
Fertilizers
- Macro - in 500ml Water, I am adding Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) 8.5g; Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4) 12g; Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4) 2g.
- Micro - in 500mk Water, I am adding Chelated Trace Elements (Fe, Mn, Zn, B, Cu, Mo) 2g
Also, have Potassium Sulphate, but I am not using it.
Dosing
- Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday - Macro 40ml
- Monday, Wednesday, Friday - Micro 40ml
- Saturday - nothing. Water change 65-70L before the lights go off. Pre-filter cleared every week. The filter and the tubing are cleared monthly. Filter floss is replaced monthly.
Water parameters - before water change
- Amonnia - 0
- Nitrite - 0
- Nitrate - between 40-80
- Gh - 7
- Kh - 3
- PH - 6.4
- TDS - 240
I am using RO water. In 65-70L of water, I am adding Seachem Equilibrium 11g, Acid Buffer 2g and Alkaline Buffer 4g. That makes the TDS around 160-170 and the PH 6.8

I hope I haven't missed anything Please let me know if you think I am doing something wrong. I know I have everything needed, but I need help finding the balance.
Thanks

 

[Zeus.]

My thoughts-
Flow is king in the high tech tank.
Purigen, filter floss and ceramic media are all flow reducers- I would remove them, cousre and medium sponges are enough.
50% WC weekly and this is to remove DOCs (Disolved Organic Componds) plus will keep water gin clear.
Do a pH profile and check pH is stable for lighting period.
Most issues in CO2 injected tanks are CO2 and/or flow related.
Turning light period down or intensity will help also whilst the cause of the problem is resolved.

 

[Hanuman]

and poor plant growth.

First thing I noticed was how leggy the plants are with long internodes. This is due to low light.

- Macro - in 500ml Water, I am adding Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) 8.5g; Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4) 12g; Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4) 2g.

- Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday - Macro 40ml

this equates to the following:

NO3 = 6.26 ppm
PO4= 1.67 ppm
K = 4.63 ppm
Mg = 1.42 ppm

From a fertilizer stand point Mg seems fine. More info on this on the remin side lower down the post.

- Nitrate - between 40-80

I can explain partially why you end up with so much nitrate and consequently with that algae. Your WC volume is too low. I would suggest you increase your WC volume and do some slight substrate vacuum. Those sucker fish you have are probably stirring things up which makes all the more necessary to increase WCs.

- Micro - in 500mk Water, I am adding Chelated Trace Elements (Fe, Mn, Zn, B, Cu, Mo) 2g

This equates to the following:

Fe =0.197 ppm
Mn = 0.044 ppm
Zn = 0.028 ppm
B = 0.025 ppm
Cu = 0.006 ppm
Mo = 0.007 ppm

Looks fine to me.

- Saturday - nothing. Water change 65-70L before the lights go off.

I am using RO water. In 65-70L of water, I am adding Seachem Equilibrium 11g, Acid Buffer 2g and Alkaline Buffer 4g. That makes the TDS around 160-170 and the PH 6.8

As suggest above, this WC volume seems low to me. That's just 32-35% WC volume. I would increase that to at least 50%, if not more.
Now please explain why you are using an acid buffer and an alkaline buffer? I don't see the necessity of this since you are using RO water. Also, I would suggest stop using Seachem Equilibrium and instead use CaSo4 (or CaCl2) and MgSo4 as your remineralizers. Seachem Equilibrium is a K bomb (as well as a wallet bomb). Your tank K is probably to the roof with that. That 11g of Seachem Equilibrium gives you around ~3.3 dGH + ~40ppm of K. You said your dGH is around 5 which is normal as the added Mg in your fertilizer contributes to dGH.

And as stated by @Zeus. make a PH profil but also make sure you have a gentle and homogeneous flow all around the tank. I woud bring that drop checker lower in the tank. That is too high IMO and could give unwanted readings.

To conclude my assessment is that:

• your light and CO2 are out of sync so to speak. I don't think you have too much light, the opposite I think is true considering the shape of the stem plants
• improve your maintenance, increase WCs volumes.
• review your remineralizing strategy.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

First thing I noticed was how leggy the plants are with long internodes. This is due to low light

I'd try turning the light intensity up as well. It is back to the plants can't lie argument.

I am using RO water. In 65-70L of water, I am adding Seachem Equilibrium 11g, Acid Buffer 2g and Alkaline Buffer 4g. That makes the TDS around 160-170 and the PH 6.8

Now please explain why you are using an acid buffer and an alkaline buffer? I don't see the necessity of this since you are using RO water. Also, I would suggest stop using Seachem Equilibrium and instead use CaSo4 (or CaCl2) and MgSo4 as your remineralizers. Seachem Equilibrium is a K bomb (as well as a wallet bomb). Your tank K is probably to the roof with that. That 11g of Seachem Equilibrium gives you around ~3.3 dGH + ~40ppm of K. You said your dGH is around 5 which is normal as the added Mg in your fertilizer contributes to dGH.

Like @Hanuman says <"I'd just stop">. With the acid and alkaline "buffer" you are literally giving with one hand and <"taking away with the other">.

I wouldn't add anything to raise dKH or dGH before you add your fertilisers. If you want to add a <"little bit dGH and dKH"> you can use a DIY mix, details are at <"James' Planted Tank">. If your tap water is hard? <"you can just add a bit of that">.

cheers Darrel

 

[D.Bezinski]

Hi All,
Thank you for your thoughts. I will definitely try to increase the water flow.

I answer Hanuman's questions. I am adding the acid and the alkaline buffer because, from what I saw online, they all use these products together. Maybe my proportions are incorrect. So what should my water parameters be when I do water changes?
dGH?
dKH?
PH?
TDS?
I tried to find more information online but I can't find a clear answer.
About replacing Equilibrium with CaSo4 and MgSo4, I have no idea how to use them... I need to do some research.

I will make some amendments and I will let you know how it goes. Thank you for the help.

 

[Hanuman]

I am adding the acid and the alkaline buffer because, from what I saw online, they all use these products together. Maybe my proportions are incorrect.

Totally unnecessary. You would use one or both of these products in very specific water conditions, but you are using RO water so it is not required.

So what should my water parameters be when I do water changes?
dGH?
dKH?
PH?
TDS?

Your dGH is fine (5.5).
Your dKH can be 0 and your plants will thank you.
PH I wouldn't even think about it. Only moment I would think about PH is when doing a CO2 profil. That's a one time thing. Other than that, forget it.
TDS, same as PH unless you are planning to breed shrimps where it would be preferable to keep TDS low (150-200). You will have picky people saying TDS should be this or that, but my experience is that as long as it is stable it's fine. Once you dose the same amount of fertiliser and remineralizer your TDS should remain more-less constant. You can test it once in a while if it makes your feel better and if it's creeping up then do a larger water change than usual. That's it.

About replacing Equilibrium with CaSo4 and MgSo4, I have no idea how to use them... I need to do some research.

Calcium sulphate (or Calcium chloride) and Magnesium sulphate. The exact same compounds that are in Seachem Equilibrium used to remineralize your water except you will find them at a far cheaper price. You also don't have the extra added K and whatever other unnecessary compounds that are de facto already present in your fertilizer. You can use the IFC Calculator or even the Rotala Butterfly Calculator. I assume you used one of these considering you are doing DIY ferts.

 

[MichaelJ]

Totally unnecessary. You would use one or both of these products in very specific water conditions, but you are using RO water so it is not required.

Right on @Hanuman… I think the most trouble I’ve ever gotten into with aquarium chemistry was way back when I was trying to be “smart” with acid buffers and alkaline buffers… I ended up with a +1500 ppm TDS toxic brew… Darrel and Clive among others talked me off the ledge and got me on the right track. (Seachem) Alkaline buffer is pure sodium bicarbonate and acid buffer is sodium bisulfate … both are just terrible and have absolutely no place in a planted aquarium - I would say the same for the phosphate based ones.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I am adding the acid and the alkaline buffer because, from what I saw online, they all use these products together.

What @MichaelJ says. I have a real problem with <"Seachem's advice and advertising">, it is (at best) disingenuous.

cheers Darrel

 

[erwin123]

Hi all,

- TDS - 240
I am using RO water. In 65-70L of water, I am adding Seachem Equilibrium 11g, Acid Buffer 2g and Alkaline Buffer 4g. That makes the TDS around 160-170 and the PH 6.8

like @MichaelJ, I wouldn't add Equilibrium, Acid Buffer, Alkaline Buffer.........

 

[D.Bezinski]

Hi,

PH I wouldn't even think about it.

I just measured the RO water PH, and it's 6. Isn't that too low?

If I decide to use CaSo4 and MgSo4, should I worry about the Sulfate levels in the tank?

 

[MichaelJ]

Hi,

I just measured the RO water PH, and it's 6. Isn't that too low?

RO water is highly reactive and will suck up CO2 from the air which naturally will drive down pH. Don’t worry about it. This will quickly balance out when the water get remineralized and added to your tank.

If I decide to use CaSo4 and MgSo4, should I worry about the Sulfate levels in the tank?

Generally no. With CaSO4 for every 7.14 ppm (1 dGH) of Ca you get about 5.7 ppm of S (Sulfur) - you will have to target exceptionally high and inappropriate levels for a planted tank, of Calcium (or magnesium with MgSO4) to get into trouble with Sulphates.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Hanuman]

RO water is highly reactive and will suck up CO2 from the air which naturally will drive down pH. Don’t worry about it. This will quickly balance out when the water get remineralized and added to your tank.

That one. Plus CO2 in the pipes.

I just measured the RO water PH, and it's 6. Isn't that too low?

No it's not. My tank goes down to 5.4PH. Some people's PH goes down to 4.5PH.

If I decide to use CaSo4 and MgSo4, should I worry about the Sulfate levels in the tank?

Not really. Most people use both to remineralize their tanks, me included. If you want to reduce sulphate levels you can swap CaSO4 with CaCl2 (Calcium chloride). You will end up with a balanced mix of sulphates and chlorides rather than a higher amount of sulphates.

 

[D.Bezinski]

Thank you all!
Looks like I've got some work to do

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I just measured the RO water PH, and it's 6. Isn't that too low?

It is like the other have said, you can't really measure pH in RO water, as you move towards pure H2O pH is fundamentally meaningless. There is a more complete explanation in <"Consistency Deficiency">.

not sure how you came to the conclusion that CaCl2 would yield a lower EC/TDS compared to CaSO4 ?

I'm not sure there is going to be any practical difference. You have one calcium (Ca++) ion in both cases and then 2 chloride (Cl-) ions or one sulphate (SO4--) ion. The multivalent ions will conduct more electricity than the monovalent ions, but you have two Cl- ions, I'm going to guess that 2 Cl- ions conduct more electricity than one SO4-- ion, but I'm not entirely sure, I'll see if I can find out.

cheers Darrel

 

[D.Bezinski]

Sorry @D.Bezinski, we spoiled your thread with nerd chemistry

A little bit but don't worry

Now sorry to interrupt, but I have a more simple question here. I am trying to work out how to use the IFC calculator. Based on my first picture, should I try to clone the EI Dosing Mid or EI Dosing Full? Personally, I don't think my tank is densely planted, so I am thinking EI Dosing Mid.

My other question is about section 5 of the Target Calculator. It's a bit confusing so I am not sure where I need to put 1.
Potassium Nitrate (KNO3)
Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4)
Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4)
Potassium Sulphate (K2SO4)

And lastly... How important is this:

Currently, I am not doing that.

Thank you!

 

[D.Bezinski]

Not sure what makes you want to use CaCl2 in lieu of the information above

To be honest, I don't understand anything from the discussion above... If you tell me CaSO4 is better, fine by me I will get CaSO4

 

[D.Bezinski]

Hi,
Here's an update 3 weeks after the changes I've made. As you can see I still have some algae issues. Specially BBA on the Anubias, which appeared after the changes.

Slowly I increase the light intensity to:
Pink 35%;
Blue 10%;
Cold White 80%;
Pure White 80%;
Warm White 80%
Then I noticed that the back of the aquarium looked a bit dark, so I decided to add another light. Fluval 21w strip light, which came with my Fluval Roma 200 aquarium. The settings on this light are:
Red 20%
Green 40%
Blue 5%
White 40%

moved the drop checker to the bottom of the aquarium and the colour is still green, slightly yellow.

Water changes - in about 80L of RO water I am adding 8gr MgSo4 and 8gr CaCl2. That gives me about 5dGH and 150 TDS

Fertilizing:

Please let me know what you think.
Thank you!