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Fluval Stratum & Caribsea Eco-Complete?

FISHnLAB

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Hi all,

Like this.
View attachment 195328

These are in a N. facing window and have a "Superfish Scaper 45 Light" that I purchased from @Epiphyte earlier in the year. They don't have any fish and receive an extremely ad hoc slosh of "Miracle Gro" and an even more random dose of iron chelate (FeEDTA) and Epsom Salts (MgSO4.7H2O) when the Frogbit looks particularly poor.

View attachment 195329

cheers Darrel
Interesting stuff. How does keeping it more sparse affect the growth compared to letting it get crowded? I have been keeping it fairly sparse so it can grow like this... I have also noticed that in my 3 gallon it grows larger leaves and more stretched out then in my propagation glass lock with way less light and a denser plot. You can see the ones I just took out of the 3 gallon at the front of the glass lock and how much more leggy they are compared to the others...
 

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FISHnLAB

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Hi all,

Yes, a LUX meter is very useful, somewhere about 5000 LUX is <"LCP for most non-shade plants">, and the <"bright tropical sun"> would be in the hundreds of thousands.

cheers Darrel
Thanks, that was helpful👍. I followed your links and read it all. I especially found the parts about long and dim vs short and bright interesting and want to learn more about this.

So, how would I measure? My meter is not waterproof so can I just place its probe the same distance from my light as the plants LCP I am targeting in open air to get a measurement?

Maybe I'll fail miserably but, I am trying to maintain a 12/12H cycle. I currently am running lights on from 10 - 2200hours with a 30 minute soft ramp on and off and a 1 hour 5%Red/5%White dusk and dawn period at each end to kind of mimic nature. So, 10 hours of bright light per day & 2 hours very dim and red. Think this is a fools errand? It seams possible considering guys like MD Fish Tanks on YouTube runs his lights for 12-14hours per day on all of his low tech setups successfully for the most part.

Just fyi, I am running a Nicrew RGB-W 24/7 12-14". Specs...

600 Lumen
4000 LUX@12"(open air)
60 PAR@12"(open air)

I am running as follows...

White - 55%
Red - 90%
Green - 30%
Blue - 30%

What do you think? Too bright? Too dim? Thanks Darrel👍.
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
So, how would I measure?
I'd just put the meter about 60 cm from the light , just in the air, and see what it says.
What do you think? Too bright? Too dim?
I don't know, but I'm definitely going to say <"not too bright">.

That is why I like a floating plant, <"they are adapted to bright light"> and not CO2 limited, so you are <"unlikely to fry them">. I just have more plants if I have a brighter light, but <"I don't care about aesthetics"> or seeing the fish etc.

img_0126-jpg-jpg-jpg.jpg


cheers Darrel
 

FISHnLAB

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Hi all,

I'd just put the meter about 60 cm from the light , just in the air, and see what it says.
Roger, will do.
I don't know, but I'm definitely going to say <"not too bright">.
I think it is going to take me some time to learn just how bright "too bright" is unfortunately. It's hard for me because I have no where to see a planted tank in real life other then a couple of Java Ferns or Water Wisteria at the local Pet store.
That is why I like a floating plant, <"they are adapted to bright light"> and not CO2 limited, so you are <"unlikely to fry them">. I just have more plants if I have a brighter light, but <"I don't care about aesthetics"> or seeing the fish etc.

img_0126-jpg-jpg-jpg.jpg


cheers Darrel
Yes, there definitely needs to be a balance doesn't there. It must be even harder to learn the balance once you add CO2 into the mix too.
 

FISHnLAB

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Hi all,

The advantage of a floating plant is that you can discount CO2 deficiency, any floating, or emergent, plant has access to <"415 ppm of atmospheric CO2">. It is <"Diana Walstad's "aerial advantage"> and have a look at <"150 ppm co2?">.

I think so, I also think that light is probably more important than nutrients in terms of the degree of leginess.

This is the <"https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/glasshouse-floating-weeds-tank.70267">. Which hasn't received a lot of nutrients, but has had a lot of light.

The situation is slightly complicated by the Azolla caroliniana, because it has a <"nitrogen fixing cyanobacterial symbiont">, and which will have supplied some "extra" fixed nitrogen.

azolla_salvinia-jpg.jpg

If the Salvinia auriculata group had more nutrients I would expect the shoots to be much longer before the basal leaves went brown (started senescing) and it would be a bigger plant all around and possibly slightly less "bronzy" in colour.

cheers Darrel
Hey Darrel, can I get your opinion on this please? I've been using your method and I see in one of my propagation/experiment tanks(a 1L beaker) that the new growth on my Salvinia Aruculata is coming out light green or even yellowy now so I am thinking a have a deficiency? I haven't changed anything other then I started adding Seachem Excel to all of my tanks 1 week ago. Nitrogen? Iron? What do you think? What should I change?

This tank currently houses a large Anubias Hastifolia and 3 different Philippine Java Fern clippings stuck to a piece of Red Moor Root I am trying to revive and propagate(it's going well).
Thanks for your help again sir👍.
20221019_192923.jpg
 

FISHnLAB

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Oh, it gets fed daily...

1 drop The 2HR Aquarist APT 3
1 drop of Seachem Flourish Advance
1 drop of Seachem Excel

2 x 50% Water Changes per week.

Lights are probably a little on the high side but, no algae.
 
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FISHnLAB

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More evidence of deficiency on the new growth of my Philippine Java Fern in the same tank?
SmartSelect_20221019-201334_Gallery.jpg

The top half is more translucent then the bottom.
 
Last edited:

plantnoobdude

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More evidence of deficiency on the new growth of my Philippine Java Fern in the same tank?
View attachment 195992
The top half is more translucent then the bottom.
I believe that’s just how Java ferns grow, I’ll tag @Hufsa as she has more experience with Java ferns.
Hey Darrel, can I get your opinion on this please? I've been using your method and I see in one of my propagation/experiment tanks(a 1L beaker) that the new growth on my Salvinia Aruculata is coming out light green or even yellowy now so I am thinking a have a deficiency? I haven't changed anything other then I started adding Seachem Excel to all of my tanks 1 week ago. Nitrogen? Iron? What do you think? What should I change?

This tank currently houses a large Anubias Hastifolia and 3 different Philippine Java Fern clippings stuck to a piece of Red Moor Root I am trying to revive and propagate(it's going well).
Thanks for your help again sir👍.
View attachment 195989
These floaters look fine Ish. The new growth looks a little pale but they may colour up as the leaves mature. In any case, new pale leaves means Fe, Mn issues.
 

Hufsa

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I believe that’s just how Java ferns grow, I’ll tag @Hufsa as she has more experience with Java ferns.
Yes the tips will be translucent on young leaves. When the leaves are this small its difficult to tell if they are deficient or just growing still.
Any potential chlorosis will be more easy to see once the leaf has reached approximately full size, then you will want to look at the area below where the translucent area used to be. The very tips will usually always be slightly lighter even in normal java fern.

In any case, new pale leaves means Fe, Mn issues.
Indeed its quite clear in the pictures that the color difference is in new growth, to find the new end on these floaters that grow like string lights, look for the end where the leaves are coming out.
Since its in the new growth and not the old, it could indicate a non mobile nutrient.
 

FISHnLAB

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I believe that’s just how Java ferns grow, I’ll tag @Hufsa as she has more experience with Java ferns.
Ok, thanks.
These floaters look fine Ish. The new growth looks a little pale but they may colour up as the leaves mature. In any case, new pale leaves means Fe, Mn issues.
I have been growing this Salvinia for over a month and this is the first I've seen of yellowy leaves. I have it in 6 other tanks as well and the others aren't yellowing or at least not near as much. This indicates to me something is wrong in this particular tank and considering it has two different fast growing broad leaf species, I'm guessing some type of nutrient is low. But, I am too new to know what it is lol. Maybe Iron or Mag like you say. I'll have to keep researching how to deal with this before it becomes a problem. I'm trying to get these Java ferns and hastifolia perfect for my new tank build so I would like to sort it out asap before any damage is done or I will have to trim the leaves and start over again.
 

FISHnLAB

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Yes the tips will be translucent on young leaves. When the leaves are this small its difficult to tell if they are deficient or just growing still.
Any potential chlorosis will be more easy to see once the leaf has reached approximately full size, then you will want to look at the area below where the translucent area used to be. The very tips will usually always be slightly lighter even in normal java fern.
Ok, good to know. Thanks Hufsa👍.
Indeed its quite clear in the pictures that the color difference is in new growth, to find the new end on these floaters that grow like string lights, look for the end where the leaves are coming out.
Since its in the new growth and not the old, it could indicate a non mobile nutrient.
Could it be too much of something or likely not enough? Could it be light or CO2 related? Any ideas on how to proceed? I really want to keep these broad leaves perfect and lush for transfer to my new build. I have been slowly cutting off the old growth as new leaves form so I have all nice new leaves. It's been working great until now and I have beautiful new leaves on all of the plants with no signs of deficiency(especially now that I know that translucent tips are not lol).

Thanks again for your help Hufsa👍.
 

FISHnLAB

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Id try a KISS solution first and just try adding a little bit more and see if that helps
Roger that. That was my first though as well(I started adding 2 drops APT 3 instead of one yesterday😁) How long should it take to see results? Do I have to wait for new leaf growth again or will the current leaves get greener?
 

FISHnLAB

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I'm going to order a Nutrafin Iron Test Kit(works for both chealated and non-chealated iron) today as well just so I can eliminate that and add it to my testing supplies kit...
 
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