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Fzone 2.5l CO2 Generator?

IrvineHimself

Member
Joined
22 Jun 2023
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85
Location
Edinburgh
After installing my nice new filter and planting my Eleocharis, I finally installed my Fzone CO2 generator this morning.

Initially I set the bubble count at 4 bubbles every 5 seconds. After a couple of hours, the drop-checker was still dark blue, so I upped the bubble count to about 7 bubbles every 5 seconds. Noting I have a 90l (60*40*40cm) tank with the Filtosmart 200 cannister filter, does anybody have any idea of what the bubble count should be, or should I just spend the next couple of days using trial and error to narrow down the correct bubble count?
 
After installing my nice new filter and planting my Eleocharis, I finally installed my Fzone CO2 generator this morning.

Initially I set the bubble count at 4 bubbles every 5 seconds. After a couple of hours, the drop-checker was still dark blue, so I upped the bubble count to about 7 bubbles every 5 seconds. Noting I have a 90l (60*40*40cm) tank with the Filtosmart 200 cannister filter, does anybody have any idea of what the bubble count should be, or should I just spend the next couple of days using trial and error to narrow down the correct bubble count?

Depending on the level of surface agitation (which ideally needs to be high anyway) several bubbles per second wouldn't be unusual on a 90 litre tank. I have the same size tank (presumably an APS Optiwhite?) and my BPS wasn't measurable (other than with a slow-mo video camera)

Just keep increasing the bubble rate slowly every few hours until the drop checker starts to turn green (remembering that there is usually a lag of a couple of hours between changing the injection rate, and seeing the effect on the drop checker).

What method are you using to diffuse the CO2?
 
What method are you using to diffuse the CO2?
Currently, I am using the supplied diffuser, but I have plans for the 4 cm^2 real estate the diffuser takes up and am looking into an in-line diffuser.

Depending on the level of surface agitation (which ideally needs to be high anyway) several bubbles per second wouldn't be unusual on a 90 litre tank.
That high.... Actually, that figure is starting to look quite reasonable. It's now a couple of hours since I upped the bubble count, and my drop-checker is a very dark green [almost blue], so I think my bubble count needs to go up a ways yet.

my BPS wasn't measurable (other than with a slow-mo video camera
I get google nest to set a 5 or even 10 second timer and count the bubbles:cool:

Thanks for the reply
Irvine
 
I thought a photo of the diffuser/checker layout might be informative:
Diffuser-Checker--Layout.jpg
 
Hard to tell from a still image (a bit of video would make it easier) but it looks like a lot of those bubbles are getting to the surface which won't be helping.

Also unrelated, but what ferts are you dosing? There looks to be a little chlorosis on some of those newer leaves and floaters.
 
Hard to tell from a still image (a bit of video would make it easier) but it looks like a lot of those bubbles are getting to the surface which won't be helping.
Yes, I am planning a second 'overflow-tank' into which I can move the endlers and x-ray tetras. At the moment, I have to keep the flow rate as low as possible, otherwise they become distressed. On the other hand, my rock and hovering gobies love the higher flow. I am not sure about the pygmy corys, their behaviour is a lot more natural, but they are more difficult to see. I think this is because they are no longer trying to school with the endlers and tetras.

a lot of those bubbles are getting to the surface which won't be helping.
Again yes, the more I think about it the more attractive an in-line diffuser appears. Are they difficult or messy to install?

Also unrelated, but what ferts are you dosing? There looks to be a little chlorosis on some of those newer leaves and floaters.
Again, you are correct.

At the moment, I am a total novice with a tank which I have now had for just over 3 months. In the last three weeks or so, the closest I have come to a major water change was when I topped up the tank after upgrading my filter. Prior to the upgrade, my nitrate levels were around 20mg/l. I just took time out to measure nitrates and as of now, a few days after installation, they are down to under 10mg/l.

This isn't some magical filter ingredient by the way, but rather an unexpected trophic cascade: Better filtration and flow rate make for healthier plants which are better at taking up nutrients. In addition, I am hoping the injection of CO2 will lower my nitrate levels even further.

Anyway, I am dosing just under 10ml of TNC Lite about once a week, and, so far, my priority has been to use only high quality fish poo as a source of nitrates. In fact, I was going to post a thread asking: "Is there a target level of nitrates for a heavily planted tank"

I think its a question that needs its own thread so that I can go into detail about what plants I am talking about, but.......

With regard to the red root floaters, you are 100% correct, they are in trouble, but now showing early signs of recovery:)

The reason they are in trouble is because of a classic noob mistake: Once I decided on the tank and its placement, I reinforced an alcove and installed a smart flood-light. Then. about a month or so ago, I saw a you-tube video about red root floaters, and thought: "Hey, cool!!".

After a quick search on Amazon, a few days later I had two small tubs of tiny leaves which were in terrible condition. Unfortunately for the poor we buggers, I got caught up in the idea of controlling the flow so that they would gently circulate under the flood light. They were not doing great, but they were spreading out and the leaves at the centre of the mass were a lot healthier looking. Even at its lowest setting, the flow is much faster with my new filter, and the entire mass was repeatedly driven under water by the spray bar before I could coral them in a corner. Thus, their current sad state.

Currently, I am using a bit of para-cord to make floating boom to contain the mass [which is now nearly 40% of the surface] and am giving it about 8 hours a day with a 40cm hygger light. Hopefully, this localised high intensity light wil not upset the rest of my low light plants. Eventually, I would like to replace the floating boom with either a tiger or banana lily [or similar],, unfortunately this would require a higher flow rate to get sufficent surface agitation in a much constrained space. Hence the urgent need to rehouse the endlers and tetras, (sigh)
 
Just my 2p worth. I've got the same fzone co2 generator and really like it. However, if you go the online diffuser route, just make sure that it'll work with a lower working pressure. I think most work at 50psi+, while our reactors working pressure, using the directed quantities of bicarb and citric acid is about 50psi.
I position the diffuser under the filter intake to use the filter as a reactor. It works quite well at dissolving/distributing the CO².
 
Just a quick note: I am going to be out most of the day for medical appointments, but if anyone would like to chime in about in-line diffusers for the Fzone kit and/or @ScareCrow s' suggestion of using the filter as a reactor, please feel free. I did a quick Amazon search and came up with this and this as possible in-line diffusers, but in neither case does it mention the required CO2 pressure.
 
I thought about that, but was worried about CO2 causing anaerobic bacteria in the filter?
I've not heard of that happening but assuming you're only targeting the 'normal' 30ppm of CO² I can't see it being an issue. The idea is that the CO² dissolves into the water in the filter but then that water is circulated around the aquarium. So the concentration of CO² in the filter should only be marginally higher than that elsewhere in the tank.
In my mind the same argument applies with this approach and filter seals failing. The weak acid created by the CO² will only be marginally more concentrated in the filter so it shouldn't have much impact on the filter seals. I've certainly not had an issue but I do clean and apply fresh silicone lubricant whenever I open up the filter (which isn't very often).
 
Again yes, the more I think about it the more attractive an in-line diffuser appears. Are they difficult or messy to install?

No, they are easy to install, just cut your outflow hosing just after it leaves the filter and add the inline diffusor in. Contrary to @ScareCrow's experience, I have always ran my JBL inlines at 30psi, but as with many things in this hobby YMMV.

Prior to the upgrade, my nitrate levels were around 20mg/l. I just took time out to measure nitrates and as of now, a few days after installation, they are down to under 10mg/l.

Nitrate test kits are notoriously unreliable - I wouldn't trust them much beyond a 'I have some' / 'I have none' (zero vs non-zero result). Just dose nitrates, and then you will always know you have enough. Nitrates from fish waste is not enough in a high tech tank.

I am dosing just under 10ml of TNC Lite about once a week

That is no where near enough on a high tech tank, even with your relatively low plant mass. The red root floaters are a nutrient sink, and will suck lots out of the water too since they have access to 420ppm CO2.

I would switch to TNC Complete. TNC Lite contains neither nitrates nor phosphates, both of which are essential macro nutrients for plant growth. I would also increase the dose beyond the standard level - and consider spreading the dosing throughout the week.

In the last three weeks or so, the closest I have come to a major water change was when I topped up the tank after upgrading my filter.

This isn't good for a high tech tank, regular and consistent water changes of around 50% are one of the most important elements for both your plants and your live stock. Set things up for yourself to make this as easy as possible and stick to it.
 
Contrary to @ScareCrow's experience, I have always ran my JBL inlines at 30psi, but as with many things in this hobby YMMV.
Good to know. Rereading the specs you're right (1 - 1.5 bar) 15 - 22psi approx is what JBL recommend for their inline diffuser.
 
Here is my 2p 😁 Looking at the picture, spray bar is above the water and I think breaking water surface will significantly reduce flow.

Good spot I didn't notice he was using spraybar. @IrvineHimself you want this just below the water surface, angled around 45 degrees (experimentation required) towards the surface to create surface agitation.

Spray bars generally provide a gentle and even flow, so this shouldn't be too much flow for your fish.

I would experiment with your diffusor position. Centrally on the pane opposite the spray bar might be the best location so the flow pushes the bubbles down to substrate level and through the plants.
 
Here is my 2p 😁 Looking at the picture, spray bar is above the water and I think breaking water surface will significantly reduce flow.
Brilliant observation, I just adjusted the position of the spray bar so that it is 5cm below water surface angled at 45degrees toward aquarium wall. My schooling fish were instantly happier and send their thanks.

No, they are easy to install, just cut your outflow hosing just after it leaves the filter and add the inline diffusor in. Contrary to @ScareCrow's experience, I have always ran my JBL inlines at 30psi, but as with many things in this hobby YMMV.
Okay, I have just added the JBL in-line diffuser and TNC Complete to the top of next months shopping list.

This isn't good for a high tech tank, regular and consistent water changes of around 50% are one of the most important elements for both your plants and your live stock. Set things up for yourself to make this as easy as possible and stick to it.
Being old with multiple serious health issues, one of the very first pieces of maintenance equipment I bought was the branded 'Python Water Change System". Believe me, it was a life-saver, carting 20 litre buckets of water around was literally killing me. So, doing water changes is no longer a problem. In fact, even if I didn't have health issues, I would still invest in such a system: With a custom lid and a modified hook, water changes are minimally disruptive to both plants and livestock.

An update to the CO2 diffusion problem:
I had a long day yesterday, and with the Fzone relay on my Google Home App, I left it on from 5am to 5pm. I was able to check the drop checker at lunch time and it was definitely in the green. By mid afternoon it was a lime green and around 5pm it was almost transparent lime green. I didn't change any settings from the day before and I am not sure why the improvement in performance?

With regard to nitrate dosing and my red root floaters:
I am going to start a separate thread on nitrate dosing specific to my primary plants (Weeping and Christmas Moss) and the overall design of my Aqua-scape. However, on the subject of red root floaters, as I mentioned, I am setting up removable localised high intensity lighting specially for the floaters, but I am wondering whether I should remove the more scrofulous, water logged floaters?

As an observation, the waterlogged plants seem to turn into roots as new floating leaves sprout on the surface. Also, despite their current unhealthy appearance, along with providing valuable habitat, the sickly mass shades my low light plants from direct exposure to the high intensity light required by the floaters.

PhyllanthusFluitans.jpg
 
By mid afternoon it was a lime green and around 5pm it was almost transparent lime green.

Lime green is what you want to be aiming for, if it's sailing past that then lower your injection rate or you may start negatively affecting livestock.

With regard to nitrate dosing and my red root floaters:
I am going to start a separate thread on nitrate dosing specific to my primary plants (Weeping and Christmas Moss) and the overall design of my Aqua-scape. However, on the subject of red root floaters, as I mentioned, I am setting up removable localised high intensity lighting specially for the floaters, but I am wondering whether I should remove the more scrofulous, water logged floaters?

As an observation, the waterlogged plants seem to turn into roots as new floating leaves sprout on the surface. Also, despite their current unhealthy appearance, along with providing valuable habitat, the sickly mass shades my low light plants from direct exposure to the high intensity light required by the floaters.

Red root floaters don't specifically need loads of lighting, they should be fine with the main aquarium lighting, and shouldn't require a dedicated light. They do have a habit of crowding one another until you get an inch thick of them - it's just a matter of keeping them thinned out.

They are a very good litmus test for nitrate levels - the lower the nitrates, the redder they get.
 
Lime green is what you want to be aiming for,
Transparent Lime Green?

They do have a habit of crowding one another until you get an inch thick
Is that a bad thing? I have a very long list of oddball livestock I am seriously considering for addition to my tank and, while its still propagating, the mass provides useful habitat. Obviously, once it grows in, it is going to need some serious thinning to keep it manageable, but my current problem is getting stable, healthy growth.

They are a very good litmus test for nitrate levels - the lower the nitrates, the redder they get.
This I love. 😍

I was under the misapprehension that it was the intensity of the lights that got the leaves to turn red. The significance of this is that I have been actively considering how I could continuously monitor for nitrates, and having a plant that acts like litmus paper is way better than expensive high tech testing equipment. :D
 
Is that a bad thing?

Not really, you'll just start to find that the plants on the bottom of the pile will start to degrade and breakdown, which will add extra organics to your system. I ended up moving away from the red root floaters, as they're just a bit more troublesome to manage, and prefer the the higher buoyancy and root structure of dwarf water lettuce.
 
I was under the misapprehension that it was the intensity of the lights that got the leaves to turn red. The significance of this is that I have been actively considering how I could continuously monitor for nitrates, and having a plant that acts like litmus paper is way better than expensive high tech testing equipment. :D

High intensity lighting does help them to go red, but really only because it increases nutrient demand, and when combined with low nitrate levels (<5ppm) they will go very red.

Personally though I wouldn't be too concerned about nitrate levels - just dose a target level and forget about it.
 
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