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Getting Started with Ferts Dosing

Joined
8 Dec 2023
Messages
273
Location
Scotland
Hello all.

I’ve read quite a few threads and discussions this evening and I think I have an idea of where I can get started with dosing fertiliser but just want to run it by the community before I purchase anything or do anything crazy and upset the tank.

My water volume is between 80 and 90litres after adding canister filter but removing substrate, hardscape etc. I have the Superfish Scaper 90 LED light which is a 32W about 150mm above the water surface. The whole “watts per gallon” I assume doesn’t make sense anymore with LED lights now but it was sold as part of an aquascape setup so I expect the light is sufficient for photosynthesis. It’s currently running 6hrs a day to limit algae growth. I intend to up this once the CO2 arrives.

I’m waiting on some CO2 components but have gone down the fire extinguisher and regulator route with an inline diffuser. Hopefully this will be set up before Christmas and I’ll be aiming for 25-30ppm using my drop checker.

The tank is stocked with a shoal of green neon tetras and some invertebrates. I have some submerged plants (one Anubias, micranthemum, eliocharis, planted into Fluval stratum) as well as water lettuce floating as a “duckweed index” indicator. I also have a few plants growing hydroponically at the surface.

The water lettuce is growing well so I’m not concerned about nutrient levels yet! But I want to be prepared so the plan I have is:

Purchase dry salts of potassium nitrate and monopotassium phosphate. Mix up with DI water to a concentrated solution which can be stored. The ratio of PNO4 to KH2PO4 should be 4:1 respectively. The concentrated solution should be dosed to the aquarium to lift the ppm of Nitrate to 20ppm over the course of a week (every other day?). The other macros should be in proportion (if I’ve understood it all and mixed correctly!) which would bring potassium up to a similar level as the nitrate and phosphate would be 1/10 of the other two macros.

I have some FloraGrow trace elements which came with the tank so I’ll use them up before mixing anything else up.

50% water change a week. Each water change will be buffered to a GH of 6dGH.

I’ll need to regularly test the water for a while to get an idea for uptake levels and adjust dosing accordingly. I’m generating enough nitrate already with bioload but I’ve been feeding heavily while stock gets settled and will reduce my once everything is more settled.

Does this plan make sense? Have I made an enormous mistake somewhere? Anything you would change? I based my plan off the threads on EI dosing.

Thanks for reading. Hopefully someone will be able to give advice.

EDIT: Changed ratio from 8:1 to 4:1.
 
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Hi all,
I don’t have a way of measuring nutrients down to 1ppm accuracy
That is the point really, none of us do.

Realistically, even if we have access to analytical equipment <"New bit of kit - MP-AES">, that is a level of accuracy that is going to be problematic in terms of time, reagents etc. <"Testing parameters for EI">.
The water lettuce is growing well so I’m not concerned about nutrient levels yet!
Honestly that is the important bit. Both Estimative and Duckweed Indices were designed to do away with the need for accurate water testing. It isn't that these parameters aren't important, or that we don't want to know what they are, it just reflects the practical difficulties in getting accurate and repeatable values.
Maybe a conductivity/tds meter could help?
That is my suggestion. Conductivity is a linear scale, you can make your own standards and the meters are low maintenance and pretty much "plug and play". Have a look at <"Low nitrate level">.
Purchase dry salts of potassium nitrate and monopotassium phosphate. Mix up with DI water to a concentrated solution which can be stored. The ratio of PNO4 to KH2PO4 should be 4:1 respectively. The concentrated solution should be dosed to the aquarium to lift the ppm of Nitrate to 20ppm over the course of a week (every other day?). The other macros should be in proportion (if I’ve understood it all and mixed correctly!) which would bring potassium up to a similar level as the nitrate and phosphate would be 1/10 of the other two macros.
I'd just recommend buying one of the <"Solufeed mixes">, it saves a lot of mucking about (and money) <"Water Soluble (WS) Powder">.
Each water change will be buffered to a GH of 6dGH.
Why that high?
Same for me. You are going to be adding magnesium (Mg) with your fertiliser, so you just need to add smidge of calcium (Ca).

cheers Darrel
 
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Thanks Darrell.

I see the 2:1:4 mix being recommended in the thread you linked. Am I right to think this is because nitrates and phosphates are in abundance due to fish waste? That 2:1:4 mix also has magnesium in it so I would just supplement calcium to achieve a hardness and available minerals for my invertebrates?

Thanks again for the help reply.
 
Hi all,
Am I right to think this is because nitrates and phosphates are in abundance due to fish waste?
It is going to depend on a lot of factors. That is the real issue with a numbers or water testing based approach, you are dealing with a <"multi-factorial situation"> with a huge number of variables.

Personally I don't have <"many fish in my tanks">, other people will <"have a lot more">. It was the <"unknown unknowns"> that led me to an <"observational">, <"probability based approach">.

It is <"only an opinion">*, but I'm pretty sure most people's aquarium issues would go away if they had <"healthy growing plants">, and that "watching the plants" is the optimal solution for 99% of people.
hat 2:1:4 mix also has magnesium in it so I would just supplement calcium to achieve a hardness and available minerals for my invertebrates?
Yes, either via calcium sulphate (CaSO4.2H2O), calcium chloride (CaCl2.2H2O) or calcium carbonate (CaCO3). The IFC sheet gives remineralising option and solubility limits <"IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator"> if you want to go down that route.

Personally I'd go down the <"Oyster Shell Chick Grit"> route, but other will want to <"limit the amount dKH they add">.

* Just to abandon all attempts at appearing modest, I'd say I've had a <"pretty good strike rate">.

cheers Darrel
 
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Excellent. That helped a lot. I need to just keep an eye on the plants and adjust accordingly. At the moment I have no problems so I’ll see how things go once the CO2 is set up. If I can figure out how to buy a 1kg bag of 2:1:4 (there’s only 20kg bags on the Solufeed website) I’ll get some ready for when I need it.

Thanks.
 
That’s the level recommended
When I came to UKAPS, I've quickly realized that this community is affected chiefly by two sources: Takashi Amano and Tom Barr's Estimative Index. Yet it would be a mistake to take this position for universal. In my country, par example, EI is not held in much esteem; majority of hobbyists outright reject it.
Darrel's Duckweed Index has much more of a science in itself than Tom Barr's theories.
 
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Hi all,
Darrell's Duckweed Index has much more of a science in itself than Tom Barr's theories.
I'm hoping that, over time, some empirical science <"https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213343720304504">* does fill in the gaps. (Figure from linked paper).

Pistia_nutrient_removal_UKAPS_small.jpg


Personally I'm probably just going to <"work on tweaks for improving it in practice">, rather than trying to understand exactly what processes underlie it.

To use seasonal analogy, I know that today (or tomorrow) is the Winter Solstice and even if I didn't understand <"about the tilt and orbit of the Earth">? It would still be the shortest day.

*Kundan Samal, Shivanshi Trivedi, (2020) "A statistical and kinetic approach to develop a Floating Bed for the treatment of wastewater,"
Journal of Environmental Chemical Engineering, 8:5,


cheers Darrel
 

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Each water change will be buffered to a GH of 6dGH.
The tank is stocked with a shoal of green neon tetras and some invertebrates.
If you're keeping shrimps 4-6 dGH with a Ca:Mg ratio between 3:1 and 4:1 is fine (that ratio range is supposedly good for your plants as well). My own shrimp tank with various species currently sits at 4.5 dGH and 0.5 KH.

for 25-30ppm using my drop checker.
Be careful with high injection rate and livestock - invertebrates in particular. Unless you really need accelerated plant growth 15-20 ppm is probably good enough. Also with higher injection rate and low KH your going to impose a larger pH swing.

The ratio of PNO4 to KH2PO4 should be 4:1 respectively.
Not sure I understand what this is supposed to mean?



Cheers,
Michael
 
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When I came to UKAPS, I've quickly realized that this community is affected chiefly by two sources: Takashi Amano and Tom Barr's Estimative Index. Yet it would be a mistake to take this position for universal. In my country, par example, EI is not held in much esteem; majority of hobbyists outright reject it.
I used to be an EI user... It's the idea of abundance so you don't have to worry about deficiencies.... which is a commendable goal. My main problem with EI is that you're somewhat encouraged to pummel your tank with fertilizers (NPK & Fe) without taking water conditions (hardness and alkalinity in particular) into account. And in order to stifle accumulation you're also encouraged (required?) to do very frequent large (50%) water changes which is another thing that is highly tank depended.
That said, if you apply EI light (which is not well defined, I know) to a soft acidic tank you're not too far off from being rather lean though.

Cheers,
Michael
 
Thanks Michael. I think it was your advice that led me to the 4-6dGH from my earlier post. If the lower end of that is okay, then I’ll aim for that as my water is very soft anyway and raising the hardness is always going to cost me money.

Don’t mind the ratio I gave. It was based on teaspoon measurements of KNO4 (typo as PNO4) and KH2PO4 which I had read in a EI dosing article. I’m not going to bother with this anymore and use the premixed SoluFeed stuff.
 
Be careful with high injection rate and livestock - invertebrates in particular. Unless you really need accelerated plant growth 15-20 ppm is probably good enough. Also with higher injection rate and low KH you’re going to impose a larger pH swing.

Cheers,
Michael
Good advice. Thank you. I’m just aiming to keep everything healthy, I’m not after fast growth in such a small tank.
 
Be careful with high injection rate and livestock - invertebrates in particular. Unless you really need accelerated plant growth 15-20 ppm is probably good enough. Also with higher injection rate and low KH your going to impose a larger pH swing.
I haven’t started CO2 yet - the parts were delivered this afternoon so I’ll get cracking with it tomorrow. The drop checker I have came with a checker fluid which I believe is just Bromothymol blue and 4dGH water. From the co2 chart I can see that green is a range between 16ppm and 33ppm so I guess I’m ideally looking for a bluey-green to suggest I’m at the lower end of the CO2 range rather than a strong green?

I haven’t used one before so I’m just trying to get an idea of what to expect.
 
I haven’t started CO2 yet - the parts were delivered this afternoon so I’ll get cracking with it tomorrow. The drop checker I have came with a checker fluid which I believe is just Bromothymol blue and 4dGH water. From the co2 chart I can see that green is a range between 16ppm and 33ppm so I guess I’m ideally looking for a bluey-green to suggest I’m at the lower end of the CO2 range rather than a strong green?

I haven’t used one before so I’m just trying to get an idea of what to expect.

I am not a CO2 user so I am going to yield the floor... @John q Since you're active on this thread and a very skilled CO2 practitioner, this one is for you ! :)

Cheers,
Michael
 
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Cheers Michael. @simon_the_plant_nerd 4dkh solution is fine, aim for a green/lime green colour similar to this: Post in thread 'A Tale of Two Roma's' A Tale of Two Roma's

Also really beneficial if you can monitor the ph of the water, and profile it. Old thread link from Clive, our old, but not forgotten, cyborg from the realms of Edgar Allen Poe.
Post in thread 'PH profile' PH profile
 
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