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Guppy’s keep dying (help with diagnosis)

For example following the advice in the article about dosing with a mix of API Furan-2 and Seachem KanaPlex
Yes these are better meds to use with Columnaris, especially the Furan-2 type compound (which is a well documented synergistic treatment compound) though I much prefer the Hikari version
But both types are still predominantly supportive care re minimizing secondary infections

While your Guppy may be showing a “saddleback” lesion, it’s not clear in that video - is the paleness just from the collapsed dorsal fin
It uncommon to observe a saddleback lesion without also seeing the accompanying facial lesions
 
I've gone ahead and reduced the temp of my tank and will do daily water changes. I'm a bit unsure of which medication would be best. Is there anything that you could suggest that's available in the UK?


Overall I was wondering what the best course of action would be. I have a small tank lying around that I could turn into a quarantine setup. However I was unsure as to whether or not I should be separating and treating the specific fish that's sick, or given the fact that I've had a few deaths now (the rest look fine at the moment) that I should be keeping everyone together and treat the main tank.

I’m not in the UK so can’t really suggest what’s likely to be available (check online as well)
BUT
anything added only has the ability to improve mortality rate not actually treat/inhibit (most) Columnaris strains

Often guppies will respond positively to the addition of NaCl (your plants maybe not so well), so you might try adding salt (NaCl), begin with 1Tablespoon per 37litres, then after 12-24h increase to 2T per 37litres - you can continue increasing this salt level, but if you don’t see any improvement at this stage, increasing salt will unlikely have much effect
(the salt may alleviate “velvet” or other secondary infection symptoms, it won’t negatively impact the Columnaris)


A previous post I made in this thread
Columnaris disease in fish: a review with emphasis on bacterium-host interactions
  • Annelies Maria Declercq
  • Freddy Haesebrouck,
  • Wim Van den Broeck,
  • Peter Bossier and
  • Annemie Decostere
Veterinary Research. 2013 44:27

https://veterinaryresearch.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1297-9716-44-27

This review article is hosted on several sites, some of which include full access

Without access to meds that have proven Columnaris activity, optimum water conditions are your best bet
You’ve already decreased temp, which is good
Softer water will also improve survival rates (pick up some RO to dilute with tap if you’re in a hard water area)
Slightly acidic pH also seems to benefit fish over Columnaris
Increase surface movement - ie anything that optimizes oxygen levels in water is beneficial to fish as C invades gill tissue
Vacuum substrate as much as possible
Rinse all filter media, clean filter hoses of any sludge

I’d use activated carbon to remove any medications that have been added - they will only act as fish stressor
(& most sequester oxygen)


AND remove any possibly infected fish to a separate tank (or food safe bin) set up with bare bottom - they will act as a significant infection source
I’d actually remove all Bettas and Danios, also consider rainbow isolation (though I’d keep them separate from the Bettas and Danios)
Be very careful not to cross contaminate from isolation tanks, back to main tank - separate nets, water change equipment etc - also have a physical separation between tanks

At this time, sounds like the fish you are losing are among those species that are more “sensitive” to C infection/higher mortality (even with suitable medications etc, there is always some % mortality)


As you’ve only the 8 guppies in your Fluval Edge I’m not sure I’d worry overmuch about fish separation in terms of maintaining water quality and minimal bioload
One issue that many claim about the Fluval Edge series, is poor oxygenation of the water (based upon anecdotal observations not any actual oxygen measurements (I’ve seen)), so I’d suggest dropping the water level and possibly adding an air stone/pump - though if you can arrange for the filter return to “splash” that would also address this issue

You don’t mention actual size of your “small tank”
- I’d actually be inclined to remove the healthy seeming guppies to a bare glass tank (you can add some unused plastic plants or a newly purchased plant (from a fish free system, especially Aquarium Gardens which maintains a hydroponic style holding system for their potted plants) while sorting out the Edge

- realistically, I doubt the Guppy in video will recover - unless he has a food response? - though I understand a reluctance to euthanize. Do you have one of those net breeders? (there are various branded versions) this can be placed high in the tank so that there is some gentle current crossing through - this will improve water movement across guppy gills and should help his increase oxygen levels (making him more comfortable)
 
unfortunately hobby branded versions don’t need to perform to an industry standard".
Strip tests that are sold for clinical applications are regulated, manufacturers should be able to discuss quality control and standards of performance etc in response to your query

I rarely test my water these days so can’t comment specific to your test strips

One of the reasons I’ve always liked Hach :)
What is the accuracy of Hach Test Strips?
Hach Test Strips are semi-quantitative and are accurate to +/- one half of a color block. Quantab strips are accurate to +/- 10 percent. Specific accuracies vary by parameter and are denoted on the product ordering page as well as on the package itself. If you are looking for a more precise method of testing, for instance if you are reporting to the EPA, please view our other test kits.
 
that I should be keeping everyone together and treat the main tank.
You will definitely want to “treat” the main tank even if you remove fish during treatment

This is where an actual diagnosis would be helpful - unfortunately as this is unlikely (especially given current circumstances), I’d be inclined to do some fairly intensive cleaning of the Edge

QUOTE="macleod92, post: 593241, member: 19286"]This all started after a got a couple of new Guppy’s from Pets At Home (my mistake I know).[/QUOTE]
As you mention having a second small tank, I’d set this up as a quarantine tank for new fish purchases

We all make mistakes so don’t dwell on this overmuch
In reality, even a quarantine should run for 2-3 months (with graduated introductions etc) rather than the 2-3 weeks usually allotted but most fish manage just fine despite our imperfect care
 
Thanks for all of the info everyone.
Unfortunately I lost the Guppy today. Thank you everyone for trying to help.

I’ve since done a 75% water change. I’ve got some ESHA-2000 coming tomorrow. My question is whether or not I should go ahead with dosing with the ESHA (or based on the above comments Furan-2)?
Or should I just do daily WC for the next week or two to really make sure the water quality is good.

I just want to make sure that the rest of the fish don’t have anything.


Thanks!
 
Can you post some details on your set up?

I have some idea from the video but also some questions
 
Hi @macleod92

Sorry that you lost your Guppy. We tried.

I would go with whatever @alto suggests. S/he has more experience than me and I want you to get the best advice possible.

I will watch this thread with interest.

JPC
 
Sorry that you lost your Guppy. We tried.

I appreciate everyone's efforts. Unfortunately these things happen.

Can you post some details on your set up?

I have some idea from the video but also some questions

No problem. As you know it's a Fluval Edge 46L. It's been setup for about 10 months. It has the stock filter (sponge, carbon and bio) and LED light which is on for 10 hours a day. I also have the Tropica Nano Co2 system setup.

Before they started dying I had 11 Guppies as well as two zebra snails and an amano shrimp.

After the first two Guppies died I decided to have a bit of a clean out but also to rescape as I was having issues with the substrate coming up through the sand cap.


The timeline looks like this.
  • 4th March - 1st Guppy death (two days after introduction to tank from PetsAtHome)
  • 13th March - 2nd Guppy death (euthanized after it became clear it was suffering)
  • 22nd March - Big clean out/ rescape (tank emptied and thoroughly rinsed out, growth substrate replaced, sand substrate washed thoroughly)
  • 31st March - 3rd Guppy death (sudden)
  • 11th April - 4th Guppy death

The scape looks like this. 1cm layer of Tropica Growth Substrate followed by a 5-9cm layer of Unipac Aquarium Silica Sand (layer of greenhouse shading inbetween substrate and sand). I have a piece of bogwood in there along with some rocks and a (recently planted) dwarf hairgrass carpet.

The rest of the Guppies look alright at the moment but I thought after the other times so am now not sure.

Any advice on how to permanently head this thing off would be great. Thanks!
 
So unfortunately I had a 5th Guppy die today. This one came out of nowhere. I've got some ESHA-2000, should I dose the tank with this or with something else? I'm just not sure what to do and don't want all my fish to keep dying.
 
So unfortunately I had a 5th Guppy die today. This one came out of nowhere. I've got some ESHA-2000, should I dose the tank with this or with something else? I'm just not sure what to do and don't want all my fish to keep dying.

Hi @macleod92

I understand your quandary. Have you considered sending a PM to @alto?

JPC
 
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