Harlequin rasbora loss

SRP3006

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2019
Messages
575
Location
GB
I've been dosing and doing daily water changes. I haven't lost any today but I've noticed 3 more refusing food and showing slight symptoms. So not sure if it's having any effect whatsoever. Obviously time will tell.
The eSHa direction aren't exactly helpful, 'dose this amount' but if its a certain strain 'dose a little more' how are we ever supposed to know where we stand and what to dose if there are so many different instructions and dosage amounts.
 

Jayefc1

Member
Joined
2 Sep 2017
Messages
2,192
Location
Swadlincote
Hi mate sorry to hear about your fish issues hope things get better can you not just dose the max amount allowed I've not had anything like this before so not sure 😕
 

SRP3006

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2019
Messages
575
Location
GB
Hi mate sorry to hear about your fish issues hope things get better can you not just dose the max amount allowed I've not had anything like this before so not sure
Thanks Jay, you see the thing is they don't tell you exactly what's in the stuff. Also the packaging says one thing and as you see above in @alto post the faq's on their website say something different and very vague unless I'm missing something. Also the bit about not dosing water conditioner seems like a really bad idea. Especially recently with all the rain we've had I've noticed a stronger smell of chlorine during water changes, probably due to surface water (I think).
All the fish (harlequins) are in the 50l tank (which I had to tear down in 20min after work which was a shame) and don't look great to be honest. They aren't happy in there, but itll always quarantine new fish from now on.

Just makes you feel like a shoddy aquarist, when all we try to do is keep our little piece of nature healthy and happy. When we can't I guess it's only natural to look to ourselves for reasons why.
 
Last edited:

Jayefc1

Member
Joined
2 Sep 2017
Messages
2,192
Location
Swadlincote
Maybe the medication conditions the water so if you added more it would make it less effective the thing is are you going to.lose them all in any case so better off trying everything to save them
 

SRP3006

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2019
Messages
575
Location
GB
Maybe the medication conditions the water so if you added more it would make it less effective the thing is are you going to.lose them all in any case so better off trying everything to save them
I thought I was dosing the correct amount according to the paperwork, with water conditioner it just seems cruel to put them through that if you know what I mean. Causing them to suffer when there is no guarantee of curing them seems a wrong choice. Maybe a moral one. Dunno bud.
 

Jayefc1

Member
Joined
2 Sep 2017
Messages
2,192
Location
Swadlincote
I mean is the water conditioner stopping the medication from working does the medication condition the water

If conditioner stops the medication working there is no point in medication
 

Majsa

Member
Joined
26 Apr 2017
Messages
240
Location
The Netherlands
We don't have chlorine/chloramine in our tap water so I am lucky I don't need to use conditioners. But if you do, then it doesn't sound right to me to expose them now, when they are ill already. Are there any alternatives, like aerating the water before WC? Or is it not effective enough? Maybe ask Esha?
 

SRP3006

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2019
Messages
575
Location
GB
eSHa's website has lots of information without lots of information if you catch my drift. They mention under normal circumstances quite a few times but there is no mention of what normal means as if you are treating your fish for a infection/disease then this is not normal for me....

From the website,

Under normal circumstances and dosages water conditioners cause no problems. However when used excessively, because of their strong binding capacities, water conditioners (de-chlorinators, heavy metal binders, etc.) can potentially decrease the effectiveness of products such as disease treatments, algae / snail treatments, etc. or even give rise to reactions.

Again what is excessive use of water conditioners, I use as per the instructions on prime so again I am not sure what excessive means. Or is it just a clause/covering their a** for any treatments that do not work as they would like.

With the fish struggling with growths on their skin I don't think adding chlorine to the mix would help them,
On their website they even mention plant fertilisers and plant substrates as binders of nutrients and can possibly effect how the treatment works.
 

Majsa

Member
Joined
26 Apr 2017
Messages
240
Location
The Netherlands
I think I'd just keep on doing WCs with conditioner and adding the medications an hour or so later as @alto recommended in an earlier post. Your situation should count as "normal circumstance" (normal usage of Prime as per instructions), the rest being disclaimers.
 

alto

Member
Joined
24 Dec 2014
Messages
5,992
or just leave it to stand (exposed to the air) overnight.
Unless the container is relatively shallow with a large surface area to volume ratio, this is only effective for the upper 8-10cm or so of water - don’t quote me on the depth as it’s been awhile ;) (since I read the book/article)
Aeration is much more efficient
 

alto

Member
Joined
24 Dec 2014
Messages
5,992
However when used excessively, because of their strong binding capacities, water conditioners (de-chlorinators, heavy metal binders, etc.) can potentially decrease the effectiveness of products such as disease treatments, algae / snail treatments, etc. or even give rise to reactions.
Yes this sounds like a nice bit of a** covering - there are factors which do impact various medications - and again knowing exactly which active ingredients and formulation and concentration would rule out much of the guesswork

For fish that are more impacted by skin infections, you can try some dip treatments BUT again this is still guessing at which might be most effective, also the stress of capture, even when the fish are not evading much - yet another sign that fish are very ill, and likely relatively low oxygen levels due to heavy gill infections - can precipitate death (though I’m usually of the mind that these fish are very unlikely to survive even prior to intensive treatment)

eSHa should be able to supply you with recommended dosing for short term bath treatments - this is usually 10min to an hour at most, it’s important to again have good oxygen levels in this short term bath
(and no chlorine/chloramine!)

It’s sad that this has happened to you/your fish but also realize that the disease likely came in with newly shipped fish - the wholesale distributor and shop should’ve noticed some problems with these fish in terms of daily DOAs, reduced activity/food response etc

Fortunately most fish are quite robust and manage even without quarantine at the shop or before being added to your home tank BUT after something like this happens, it does make the running of a Q tank more attractive
 

SRP3006

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2019
Messages
575
Location
GB
I've completed a large water change as I've lost 7 today, worst day so far
Wiped all the glass, siphoned any debris and gave the filter a quick clean.
I'll give it a few hours and dose day one levels of medication. But I'm going to be honest and say I'm not holding out much hope here, they're all looking pretty sad at the moment.
 

SRP3006

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2019
Messages
575
Location
GB
yet another sign that fish are very ill, and likely relatively low oxygen levels due to heavy gill infections - can precipitate death (though I’m usually of the mind that these fish are very unlikely to survive even prior to intensive treatment)

I think I agree to be honest, I feel everything may have been a little too little too late on my part.
 

Conort2

Member
Joined
16 Feb 2018
Messages
437
Location
London
I think I agree to be honest, I feel everything may have been a little too little too late on my part.
To be fair looking at the quality of your new harlequins I doubt there would be much you could do regardless. Some tank raised species are of such poor quality now. This Often happens with neons tetras, dwarf neon rainbow fish, dwarf gourami, guppy’s and sometimes harlequins. All you can do is keep up the water changes and the treatment and hope for the best.

cheers

Conor
 

SRP3006

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2019
Messages
575
Location
GB
To be fair looking at the quality of your new harlequins I doubt there would be much you could do regardless. Some tank raised species are of such poor quality now. This Often happens with neons tetras, dwarf neon rainbow fish, dwarf gourami, guppy’s and sometimes harlequins. All you can do is keep up the water changes and the treatment and hope for the best.

cheers

Conor
Thanks appreciate that, guess it's only natural to start blaming yourself when things like this happen. The original Harlequins were great fish and breeding regularly, were really starting to show some nice mature colours.

Now I've got 5 grindal worm cultures on the go with only a few barbs to feed.
 

Majsa

Member
Joined
26 Apr 2017
Messages
240
Location
The Netherlands
Sorry to heat about the losses, sad that the original harlequins are affected too. I think you are doing all you can, hope tomorrow will be a better day.
 

alto

Member
Joined
24 Dec 2014
Messages
5,992
If you’ve not seen any improvement in your Harlequins - how many original vs new fish are remaining?
I’d begin to suspect Columnaris rather than external parasites
(which should be alleviating with the eSHa medications - it seems unlikely they would be resistant to both Exit and 2000 ingredients ... I’m assuming old literature reports are reasonably accurate)

If my guess is correct, I’d suggest euthanizing the remaining fish and just focus on the main tank

For the 900, I’d complete the 3 Day Exit Tx, then just do daily water changes (is 50% manageable?) with as much substrate cleaning as possible - for the next 2 weeks

Don’t add any new fish for at least 4-6weeks (again this is conservative)

If you haven’t spoken with the sale shop, I’d call in and ask to speak to the manager just to let them know what happened (the shop should take note and more carefully inspect incoming stock etc)
 

SRP3006

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2019
Messages
575
Location
GB
If you’ve not seen any improvement in your Harlequins - how many original vs new fish are remaining?
I’d begin to suspect Columnaris rather than external parasites
(which should be alleviating with the eSHa medications - it seems unlikely they would be resistant to both Exit and 2000 ingredients ... I’m assuming old literature reports are reasonably accurate)

If my guess is correct, I’d suggest euthanizing the remaining fish and just focus on the main tank

For the 900, I’d complete the 3 Day Exit Tx, then just do daily water changes (is 50% manageable?) with as much substrate cleaning as possible - for the next 2 weeks

Don’t add any new fish for at least 4-6weeks (again this is conservative)

If you haven’t spoken with the sale shop, I’d call in and ask to speak to the manager just to let them know what happened (the shop should take note and more carefully inspect incoming stock etc)

To be honest I've not had to euthanize any of my fish before, not ideal. I'll check how many are still alive from the 'mature' group as soon as I get home.
I'll follow your advice re the 900, and water changes aren't a problem.
I'll call the shop but to be honest I'm not expecting a very good response. Somehow it'll be my fault that they were ill.
Thank you for your help with all this
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
BarryH Harlequin Rasbora spawning behaviour Fish 4
Fred Dulley Lump on Rasbora head Fish 2
Fisher2007 Emerald line rasbora rasbora and CPD's Fish 4

Similar threads

Top