High ammonia level

[SplendidWarrior]

Hi all
The ammonia level in my nano aquarium is still extremely high (>8ppm with API test kit) after nearly 2 months. I'm using the dark start method with only aqua soil and hard scape with the filter running 24/7. The following are my equipment list:

Tank: 10-litre nano
Filter: External canister rated for 40-litre tank
Media: 1-litre of Seachem Matrix, tiny bag of Seachem Purigen plus sponge pre-filter
Aqua Soil: Dennerle (+/- 1 litre)
Hard scape: Malayan drift wood and a few small Seryu stones
Substrate: Lava rock at the bottom with dry beneficial bacteria
Water: Distilled
Temperature: 24-26 °C

The water got really cloudy with a lot of surface scum about 3 weeks in and that's when I did the first ammonia test, did a full water change and added Seachem Stability. I also added an air pump to increase oxygen level and to remove the surface film. I tested the ammonia level again after 1 week and yielded the same 8ppm level.

I have since done 2 full water change and added Seachem Stability each time with the same ammonia level. However, the water is now clear but I also noticed bio film building up on the driftwood.

Is this part of the normal process of the dark start method? Have I done something wrong or missed something?

Regards,
Mike

 

[G H Nelson]

Hi Mike
You need to up the water changes to at least two per week!
Biofilm on wood is a normal outcome when submerged in water....clean it off with a old toothbrush and do a water change.
The film will disappear eventually.
Add a light and implement the below tutorial.

Using stem plants as a filtering aid at Start Up!

The subject of using fast-growing stem plants as part of a filtering aid has cropped up a few times recently. This idea has been around for a long time so not new, it has benefits especially for a new set - up. I try and cover at least 50% of the water surface minimum. 1. Improves water...

www.ukaps.org

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I wonder if the problem is just the distilled water, it doesn't contain any nutrients and some of the required ones are missing.

Cheers Darrel

 

[_Maq_]

with dry beneficial bacteria

added Seachem Stability each time

Drop it. It delays nitrification.
What about your pH? With distilled water, it should be acidic. If that's the case, you don't have to fear of ammonia.

 

[JohnCooke]

As Nelson has suggested above, get plants in there. Happiness is Ludwigia-shaped! Or Hygrophila-shaped...you get the idea. Seriously, the best is yet to come for your tank.

 

[Le duke]

Why distilled water???

That won’t support much life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[erwin123]

Tank: 10-litre nano
Media: 1-litre of Seachem Matrix, tiny bag of Seachem Purigen plus sponge pre-filter

Seachem marketing strikes again! You don't need 1 litre of Matrix for a 10 litre tank! According to Seachem, you only need 12.5ml of Matrix for a 10 litre tank.

If after 2 months of continously adding Seachem stability with 1 litre of Matrix which allegedly supports all the bacteria species you need for cyclling, the tank is still not "cycled" , this is another illustration that Seachem Stability doesn't work?

 

[_Maq_]

this is another illustration that Seachem Stability doesn't work?

In 2019, I've performed a set of experiments on cycling, namely the onset of nitrification. To my utmost surprise, a tank with Seachem Stability cycled about five days later than a tank without any bacterial inoculation. I could not understand why.
Only later I've found a paper which provided explanation. Nitrifying and heterotrophic microbes compete for oxygen, and heterotrophic microbes are regular winners in this competition because their metabolism is more efficient energetically. Therefore, strong presence of heterotrophs hinders proliferation of nitrifiers.
It also revealed that Seachem Stability does not contain nitrifying microbes.

This revelation has ramifications. Par example, in my country, aquarists often support cycling with fish food. While fish food is indeed a source of ammonium, it is primarily a source of organic compounds, i.e. a 'food' for heterotrophs. It is unlikely that such a help would hasten nitrogen cycling. It seems that a better way is to use mineral substances, like NH4HCO3 and NaNO2 (nitrite). I've attempted to hasten nitrogen cycling using these chemicals but the results were inconclusive (compared to control, i.e. no 'help')

By the way, during aforementioned set of experiments I've discovered that any filtration with any media did not have any effect on cycling. Since then, I've gradually got rid of all biofiltration. Yeah, like everyone else, I also believed in strong and advanced filters, but I was wrong. In planted tanks, moderately stocked, external biofilters are redundant. And in most cases, they are not needed for mechanical filtration, either.

 

[Little]

Not to high jack a thread but I have a related question regarding dark start and ammonia.

My dark start successfully* cycled after four weeks but I need to leave it in dark start mode for an unknown period while waiting for plants.

So… question is, do I need to add ammonia or something to keep the tank happy in an extended dark start.
Google shows me various different views.
I’m considering soaking some spare aqua soil in a cup for it to leech ammonia then adding the water.

What’s your views?

*water testing showed all ammonia went to nitrite then nitrate. I have not done the 24h ammonia test.

 

[John q]

So… question is, do I need to add ammonia or something to keep the tank happy in an extended dark start.

No need to add any extra ammonia, the Amazonia substrate you are using will continue to leach more than enough of that to keep the nitrifying bacteria happy for a good while yet.

 

[Little]

No need to add any extra ammonia, the Amazonia substrate you are using will continue to leach more than enough of that to keep the nitrifying bacteria happy for a good while yet.

Thank you for the advice John q.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
What @John q says. You actually need to <"reduce the level of ammonia"> (NH3) and then not add any more.

So… question is, do I need to add ammonia or something to keep the tank happy in an extended dark start.
Google shows me various different views.
I’m considering soaking some spare aqua soil in a cup for it to leech ammonia then adding the water.

I know it is difficult because you can get a tsunami of information, but I'm not being funny, but just don't listen to them.

The facts are that ammonia (NH3) / ammonium (NH4+) (TAN) <"isn't that relevant to nitrification">, and <"cycling doesn't really exist"> in a planted tank. Have a look at <"Seasoned Tank Time">.

water testing showed all ammonia went to nitrite then nitrate. I have not done the 24h ammonia test.

Have a look at the <"Duckweed Index">, it is a technique designed to reduce the need for water testing. It isn't that water parameters aren't important, they are very important, <"but much more problematic"> to measure than LFS, forums and the <"vendors of test kits"> acknowledge.

At UKAPS we've actually been talking with scientists who have actually been involved in research on nitrification in aquarium filters.

• <"The nitrifying microbes in aquariums and cycling">
• <"Correspondence with Dr Ryan Newton - School of Freshwater Sciences, University of Wisconsin—Milwaukee">
• <"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments about Bacterial supplements">

cheers Darrel

 

[Little]

Thank you for the advice and sources for my continued learning Darrel. Much appreciated and I will read it all.

I opted for a Dark Start as I had the tank and hardscape etc… but knew I would have a long period of time before getting the plants I want.
My understanding is that allowing the tank to mature a little in this time would help me start well.

To confirm…I can essentially “do nothing” until the plants I want are available?

 

[rdk1402]

Add plants and the microbe community will no doubt respond towards a new, somewhat less fragile I guess, equilibrium. I don't think there's much point in trying to manipulate or stimulate a system that is a fundamental part of nature.
The only reason to add ammonia is to make test kits work.

 

[Little]

Thanks for the confirmation rdk1402.

I’m reading the links from Darrel currently, the “duckweed test” is coincidentally how I subconsciously manage my house plants, bonsais and ponds… consistently watching how they are actually doing, instead of fragments of parameters. It’s a nice metaphor for life in general.

 

[John q]

To confirm…I can essentially “do nothing” until the plants I want are available?

I would probably do weekly water changes at this stage but other than that yes do nothing.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

To confirm…I can essentially “do nothing” until the plants I want are available?

Yes. @Cor has <"done this">. I'll link the thread in later <"when I'm home">.

Thanks for the confirmation rdk1402.

I’m reading the links from Darrel currently, the “duckweed test” is coincidentally how I subconsciously manage my house plants, bonsais and ponds… consistently watching how they are actually doing, instead of fragments of parameters. It’s a nice metaphor for life in general.

That is it, basically <"use the thing you can observe">, rather than trying to measure things you can't.

People who are good with plants are at an advantage, so the question was: how to quantify those things that you are observing subconsciously?

I didn't originally think of using a plant as a biotic index. I expected to find analytical techniques that worked reasonably well across the whole range of water types freshwater aquarists were likely to encounter, but weren't prohibitively expensive or time consuming.

Because I was struggling to do this, I started looking <"at alternative approaches">. We were looking at the phytoremediation of wastewater at work, so it wasn't a huge jump to apply the same approach to aquariums.

cheers Darrel

 

[Le duke]

I already brought it up but it was ignored so I'll ask again:

Why are you using DISTILLED water in an aquarium?