Hitech, some plants problems.

[Mike87]

Hello friend. Got some issues with some plants. Maybe someone could give a hand?

Problems (See photos)
Tonina fluvialitis-lower parts
Tonina belem-yellowing ,
Rotala mini-no growth
Eusteralis stellata-some holes upper parts.
Sao Paulo - tips unhealthy, some BBA appeared.

*PARAMETERS :
No3 7 (1ppm/day)
Po4 0.8 (0.1ppm Day)
K 18 (18 to water change volume)
Fe 0.7ppm Fe 13%, 0.1ppm Mn /week (intermag micro plus + Fe 13%)
Water change 60%/week
Ph 5.5
Kh 1 (from NaHCO3)
Gh 6
CO2 by macro ph t2 controller 24h
Co2 inline diffuser
N - CANO3, MGNO3, KNO3
P-KH2PO4
K-K2SO4
RO mineraliser GT aqua Gh - (30ca, 10mg) no K no micro, no Kh included.
Chichiros WRGB2 69W+ Chihiros AII 801 30W 10H included 1H Dawn and dusk.
Tank 120L. Created 1Y+ ago.
Toninas tops replanted week ago but I See no inprovement.
Picture of the tank. (problems pics included down)

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Strange, using the "plants can't lie" principle, you have some iron (Fe) availability issues. It is only really iron (and), potentially manganese (Mn)) deficiencies that cause chlorosis in new leaves.

Because you say "13% Fe" that will be FeEDTA, but you shouldn't need a "stronger" chelator.

All I can suggest is adding less RO remineraliser, and leaving out the NaHCO3.

I'm not sure you need to add any dKH, but if you want to? Potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) would be better. I'm not a fan of sodium (Na).

Cheers Darrel

 

[Oldguy]

All I can suggest is adding less RO remineraliser, and leaving out the NaHCO3

Also not a fan of sodium compounds.
At the risk of deviating from the post how do you get nutrient rich soft water other than potassium and ammonium salts.
Is the key acidic water (lots of CO2) and not soft water, I ask out of interest.

 

[Mike87]

All I can suggest is adding less RO remineraliser, and leaving out the NaHCO3.

I'm not sure you need to add any dKH, but if you want to? Potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) would be better. I'm not a fan of sodium (Na).

Cheers Darre

Thanks for reply ❤️ (Na) to raise kh, due to too low ph with Co2 (under 5) to use ph Controller. My controller lowest ph is 5. I've heard that potassium bicarbonate works less effective than K from Sulphates and K from Carbonates got conflict with some Ro remineralisers.
Ps Why less remineraliser?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Thanks for reply ❤️ (Na) to raise kh, due to too low ph with Co2 (under 5) to use ph Controller. My controller lowest ph is 5. I've heard that potassium bicarbonate works less effective than K from Sulphates and K from Carbonates got conflict with some Ro remineralisers.

It is the anion (bi)carbonate (CO3 / 2HCO3-) that you are interested in, the cation (Na+ or K+) isn't important in terms of the dKH, but potassium (K) is a plant nutrient and sodium (Na) isn't, if that makes sense?

You have to use an alkali metal as your cation, they are the only carbonates that are readily soluble.

I'm not a CO2 user so you will need some-one else to talk about the pH controller (@Zeus. ?). You wouldn't have those problems <"with a drop checker">, but there may be other issues.

You don't have solubility issues with potassium or sodium ions, they don't form insoluble compounds, but the anion from K2CO3, K2SO4, Na2SO4 will form <"many insoluble compounds">.

You would still need a potassium source as your source of K+ ions, because potassium is one of the three macronutrients. It doesn't matter where the K+ ion has come from, <"all K+ ions are the same">. We often use potassium nitrate (KNO3), because both K+ and NO3- are plant macronutrients.

Ps Why less remineraliser?

Because Ca++ ions can interfere with the uptake of iron (Fe++(+)) and magnesium (Mg++) ions.

Although there is no obvious reason for the chlorosis from your nutrient regime, the plants show it is occurring, and <"they can't lie">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Mike87]

Oops, sth. went wrong with my reply. I will check Your tips, thanks.

 

[_Maq_]

Chlorotic leaves: Usually Fe (Mn) deficiency, sometimes Mg (relative) deficiency or photoinhibition.
Stunted leaves: May be problems with micros (Zn, Cu, Mo, B), but K:Mg:Ca ratio should be considered as well.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Chlorotic leaves: Usually Fe (Mn) deficiency, sometimes Mg (relative) deficiency or photoinhibition.

It is this photo, to the left and right of the circle, you can see the new growth on Hygrophila difformis and Myriophyllum sp.

I'd be <"very surprised"> if that wasn't an iron (Fe) availability issue.

pH 5.5

I wonder about this value, iron availability should only become an issue as you get towards pH7.

intermag micro

That looks OK <"MIKRO PLUS™ ULTRA - Intermag">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Mike87]

Thanks for opinion mate. I appreciate it

 

[DeadFish]

Thanks for reply ❤️ (Na) to raise kh, due to too low ph with Co2 (under 5) to use ph Controller. My controller lowest ph is 5. I've heard that potassium bicarbonate works less effective than K from Sulphates and K from Carbonates got conflict with some Ro remineralisers.
Ps Why less remineraliser?

Just calibrate the controller to reflect the difference in pH if you wish to keep 0 Kh. My controller goes to 5.5, but I need to go lower. Thus, I calibrate pH of 5.5 to 5.7 so when the controller reaches 5.5, it actually is getting to 5.3. You can also calibrate the high end to reflect this difference, so pH 7 is calibrated to 7.2.

 

[X3NiTH]

I’d increase the Mn dose to about 0.2-0.25 per week increasing its overall ratio with Fe to around 3:1 Fe:Mn, I would also go the alternate dosing route and split the weekly dose into amounts to dose every other day. It looks like you’re dosing micro once per week and phosphate every day so there a high chance that you may be precipitating some of the micro out every day. If you have to dose phosphate every day try and dose it as far apart temporally from the micro to reduce any precipitative effect and gaining more nutrient availability in the water column for the plants on a more regular basis.

 

[Mike87]

I’d increase the Mn dose to about 0.2-0.25 per week increasing its overall ratio with Fe to around 3:1 Fe:Mn, I would also go the alternate dosing route and split the weekly dose into amounts to dose every other day. It looks like you’re dosing micro once per week and phosphate every day so there a high chance that you may be precipitating some of the micro out every day. If you have to dose phosphate every day try and dose it as far apart temporally from the micro to reduce any precipitative effect and gaining more nutrient availability in the water column for the plants on a more regular basis.

You say in aspect of intermag micro plus or only Mn, if I increase weekly Mn dose I will increase Zn, CU, B etc from micro fert. Did you mean to raise the manganese itself and the 3:1 ratio?

 

[X3NiTH]

I’m assuming you are fortifying the Micro mix with additional Fe because looking at the ingredients on the Intermag micro plus the Iron to Manganese ratio is already 2.25:1 whereas you are dosing a ratio of 7:1 with additional added Fe which should be plenty Fe (more than I dose per week). If you don’t want to increase the levels of the other micronutrients overall to gain increased Mn then source the Mn separately to fortify the dose. Manganese II Sulphate Monohydrate (MnSO4.H2O) is fairly easy to source.

 

[_Maq_]

overall ratio with Fe to around 3:1 Fe:Mn

My experience tells me that problems of iron are so specific, and substantially more serious than problems with all other nutrients, that any ratio of iron to whichever other nutrient must be found for every tank by trial and error. Therefore, separate iron fertilizer is a must. Other micros can be dosed in relation to phosphorus, or nitrogen.