How much of hard water can bettas tolerate?

[Sprinkle]

Hi everyone!

I kept bettas in the past about five i believe and all five died to same symptoms and neither of them lasted more than a month.

I alwways wondered if its my hard water (see attachment) but multiple sources say they can do just fine in hard water so info on this is super conflicting.

But in my old tank i used to keep livebearers from my local pet store that were riddled with parasites.

And my plants always had problems growing in my water so either they would stall die or melt and die or melt. For example my hornwort would loose most of its needles and melt and even my anubias stalled and wasnt growing much but iirc its a slow growing plant but some of its leaves melted too.
My light was and still is, i still have it, 6500K and is LED. So thats not the reason.

Maybe i kept making mistakes and there was something wrong with my water chemistry like nitrites nitrates and ammonia? But tanks were cycled so ive no idea.

And as to the bettas maybe there was a disease in the tank that lived on after each fish passed and kept infecting every fish?

Thanks for any insight! In scared to start again due to the past

 

[Sprinkle]

Man i forgot

 

[Bradders]

In scared to start again due to the past

Well, I would say don’t let the past get you down! Learn what you can from it and move forward!

I assume that you don’t have a setup at the moment?

 

[Sprinkle]

Well, I would say don’t let the past get you down! Learn what you can from it and move forward!

I assume that you don’t have a setup at the moment?

Thanks! I realise a lot of things i could have done better which i will be doing this time

And no i dont have my set up ready yet im still moving things around

 

[Bradders]

Well, I have an average of 15 hardness. And I am managing (thus far!) to keep Platty's, Cardinal Tetra and some Guppy's.

I do not know much about don't like much flow, which can be a challenge when keeping plants and VERY clean water.

I would start by getting your aquarium setup and start cycling. What is the size of your tank, and what is the filter you are (or going to) use?

 

[Sprinkle]

Well, I have an average of 15 hardness. And I am managing (thus far!) to keep Platty's, Cardinal Tetra and some Guppy's.

I do not know much about don't like much flow, which can be a challenge when keeping plants and VERY clean water.

I would start by getting your aquarium setup and start cycling. What is the size of your tank, and what is the filter you are (or going to) use?


View attachment 214486

So is my water fine for a betta then?

And the tanks 60L nano cube from Dennerle

 

[Sprinkle]

Oh and its gonna be a Walstad Tank, got previous experience with one

 

[Bradders]

So is my water fine for a betta then?

I will allow others to comment as I have never owned that species. However, I would not worry too much about Water Hardness for the fish element. I think it is going to be more about the plants etc.

Oh and its gonna be a Walstad Tank, got previous experience with one

Does that imply that the filtration is going to be from the substrate/plants etc? Or are you actually going to have a filter?

 

[sparkyweasel]

all five died to same symptoms

What were the symptoms?

 

[Sprinkle]

What were the symptoms?

Lethargic, dropsy with pineconing and lightly shredded fins and swollen belly. All five the same

 

[Sprinkle]

Also this little cherry shrimp survived in dirty smelly tank sith no water changes light or food whatsoever for two years after i stopped caring for the tank (2 years ago)! Along with few trumpet snails.
Will it be problematic to add the shrimp and the snails? Wont they intruduce some diseases for the future betta? Im scared of the betta dying again..

 

[Sprinkle]

Does that imply that the filtration is going to be from the substrate/plants etc? Or are you actually going to have a filter?

Yep thats pretty much what walstad tank is about

 

[Bradders]

Yep thats pretty much what walstad tank is about

I am not an expert on Walstad, but I am aware of the principles.
I would say that Bettas do need very clean water. I suspect that the Walstad method will challenge that a little so a filter would be good as a failsafe. But that is a very subjective and personal opinion!

 

[John q]

So is my water fine for a betta then?

I'd imagine the Betta would preferably be living in a rice paddy with a ph of 7, or less. I'm guessing your ph is 7.5 +? Will it survive in harder water, probably, will it thrive, probably not. Sorry for the blunt answer, I do crochet lessons on a Sunday.

 

[MichaelJ]

Our livestock depends on clean stable and appropriate (Temp/pH/dGH) waters to thrive... Especially with Walstad's approach you have to be really careful your tank wont end up being a stinking cesspool - which by the way will not happen if you apply common sense to Walstad's principles.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Sprinkle]

Our livestock depends on clean stable and appropriate (Temp/pH/dGH) waters to thrive... Especially with Walstad's approach you have to be really careful your tank wont end up being a stinking cesspool - which by the way will not happen if you apply common sense to Walstad's principles.

Cheers,
Michael

My water stays stable as hard as it is now.
Do you mind if i ask what you mean by?:

Especially with Walstad's approach you have to be really careful your tank wont end up being a stinking cesspool - which by the way will not happen if you apply common sense to Walstad's principles.

But im pretty sure bacteria in the soil will multiply enough to become a biological filter. But ill make sure to have a filter once i wont be able to control the nasties
A perfect Walstad tank without any problems is surely a rarity.

 

[Sprinkle]

Also this little cherry shrimp survived in dirty smelly tank sith no water changes light or food whatsoever for two years after i stopped caring for the tank (2 years ago)! Along with few trumpet snails.
Will it be problematic to add the shrimp and the snails? Wont they intruduce some diseases for the future betta? Im scared of the betta dying again..

Will at least the shrimp be safe to add?

 

[MichaelJ]

Do you mind if i ask what you mean by?:

Especially with Walstad's approach you have to be really careful your tank wont end up being a stinking cesspool - which by the way will not happen if you apply common sense to Walstad's principles.

Walstad "recommend" very infrequent water changes (she quotes like 25-50% every 3-6 months) and hardly any filtration (or means to provide water movement, more importantly) which is especially hard to justify given how crucial both oxygenation and nutrient distribution are. I believe she later revised / clarified on both positions though. Yes, we need flow in our tanks in order to provide nutrient distribution throughout the tank and substrate... I believe this ideally should be provided by a mechanical (sponge or floss) filtration system - be it an internal filter, an HOB or external filter. In a moderate to densely planted tank with healthy mature substrate, bio-filtration is largely unnecessary. Now, when it comes to water changes I do think some mature tanks would be able to get away with 25-50% every 3-6 months if you have very little buildup of organic and other waste... However, I don't really see the point of the scarcity when we all know waste buildup is the culprit when it comes to algae and general health of our livestock etc. In my own two low-tech densely planted and moderately stocked tanks I can definitely see the deterioration after 4-6 weeks without WC which happened a couple of time last year. My normal routine is 25-30% WC every two weeks. I used to be very dogmatic with respect to WC's; one weekly 50% WC... that eventually went down to 25% weekly... and now I am at 25-30% every two weeks - recently its been more like two and a half weeks. My point is to adapt to your tanks needs. This is of course easier said than done, and thats why many of us around here - including myself - always recommend weekly 50% WC for beginners and fellow hobbyists that might not have developed the intuition to assess the health situation in a planted tank.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Bradders]

This a very interesting thread!

I believe she later revised / clarified on both positions though.

From a filtration aspect, I understand the same after a breakout of pathogens. Some level of biofiltration is now recommended. And I think that is exactly where I struggle with the Walstad approach. i.e. there is a difference between achieving good nitrification versus healthy water, which is not on the cusp of pathogen outbreaks - and also has limitations on fish stocking levels and requiring mature plantation. Now, that is not to say I have any first-hand experience - so my concerns are a belief by looking at the concept and forming my own "worry points". I just don't think I am that mature an aquariumist to think I would succeed without a lot of issues on the way! So I chicken out and add a whole load of filtration.