Ick/white spots

FishKeeper55

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Hi

About week ago I picked up some cardinal tetras and couple of otos, without noticing tetras had some white spots, as this was Sunday evening I couldn't treat tank as I didn't stock any medication, the following day looked much worse and unfortunately all lost by the evening which I think was very quick, no other fish showed any spots after that, 1 day ago I decided to do a little re-scape in tank and notice the otos have white spots now, I know I made a mistake of not treating the tank after the cardinal tetras got wiped out but just need to take this on chin and move on, so yesterday treated the tank with API white spot treatment and to make matter worse I received neon tetras and had no other option but put them in tank, today is sort of just keep checking if there is any white spots showing on them tetras and if otos spots going away and no change for otos but no spots on tetras, we do have very lazy Betta and hasn't been effected yet. How do I go one from now on? API saying on bottle 5ml per 20l of water and repeat treatment after 48h, I do hope the spots will go away or at least will stop the spread but time will tell, after reading on this forum I did order esha exit now just in case but won't mix them if you know what I mean, I had Purigen in canister filter but this has been removed before treating the tank with API.

Do you think they will recover? absolutely love them otos, one of the otos have only couple spots on his head the other is covered



 

PARAGUAY

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I can only recommend products l have successfully used mainly esha but if its unavailable l would get off to the most reputable aquarium shop in your area explain your concern about ottos so you get the right product Even though your tank looked ok the problem is there because the white spot has left the host fish and in the tank. Sorry about your loss try to get another ( quaratine)tank for the future for any new fish .
 

alto

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Definitely keep treating for at least a week or so after you see the last white spot - visible white spots only appear once the infection is well advanced

Large daily water changes and daily dosing of White Spot Medication (many of which are (photosensitive) dye based ie active ingredient breaks down more quickly under aquarium lighting conditions) are recommended by fish veterinary sites
Vacuuming substrate is recommended to remove cyst life stage (obviously not so easy in a scaped aquarium)
Large water changes can also remove significant numbers of “swimming” life stage

As Ich invades the gills tissue, optimizing oxygen levels is important - filter return splash, surface agitation, keep fish at lower end of comfortable temperature range

If you happen to catch the Ich in the early stages (only a few spots) AND particular fish species have moderate to good immune response to Ich, a few days treatment may seem to eradicate Ich from your aquarium

Ich life stages often persist in an aquarium over a month or so (even when treatment appears relatively successful) - hence the recommendation not to add new fish for some weeks after the last visible white spot

There are now recognized Ich strains that complete their life cycle on the host - the discrete white spots will develop into amorphous blobs (this is terminal and euthanasia is recommended)
There are also Ich strains which show moderate to strong resistance to commonly used dye based medications
 

alto

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Note both Otocinclus photos show quite badly affected fish
(not sure if this is meant to be 2 different fish?)
 

FishKeeper55

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@alto yes there is 2 Otocinclus in tank at this moment one was sitting on leaf and other on wood branch, will repeat the treatment today afternoon with API as it will be 48h since first treatment, then will wait another 48h by then the esha exit should be delivered
 

FishKeeper55

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Little update, unfortunately yesterday we lost one of the Otocinclus, it was the one that had lot more spots, the other one making slight improvement, don't have any more white spots on head only 1 or 2 left on fins, saying that I notice some white spots on Neons now :( , feels like when one is getting better the others are getting effected :banghead:, looks like the API helped a bit regards one of the otos and still awaiting delivery of esha. Is there anything else I can do in mean time?

 

FishKeeper55

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Anyone could advice best way to use Esha after tank has been treated by API? would you do large water change or leave it alone, should I run active carbon before adding Esha or just start treating?
 

alto

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Little update, unfortunately yesterday we lost one of the Otocinclus, it was the one that had lot more spots, the other one making slight improvement, don't have any more white spots on head only 1 or 2 left on fins, saying that I notice some white spots on Neons now :( , feels like when one is getting better the others are getting effected :banghead:, looks like the API helped a bit regards one of the otos and still awaiting delivery of esha. Is there anything else I can do in mean time?
This is fairly typical progression of ich in a community tank

Can you list the active ingredients on your API product?
(I suspect it’s different than what’s sold for the NA market)

As I suggested above
Large daily water changes (I aim for 75-80%) and daily dosing of White Spot Medication (many of which are (photosensitive) dye based ie active ingredient breaks down more quickly under aquarium lighting conditions) are recommended by fish veterinary sites
Vacuuming substrate is recommended to remove cyst life stage (obviously not so easy in a scaped aquarium)
Large water changes can also remove significant numbers of “swimming” life stage


You might check with your chemist for Formalin (must be “stabilized” version for aquarium use, and sold in a dark bottle (or at least kept in a dark cabinet at the shop) - shop’s that stock livestock treatment supplies may carry suitable Formalin (just the bottle may be much more than you would ever want))

When switching over to a new/different medication, always perform a large water change, then run good quality carbon overnight (there should be some dosing instructions on the carbon)
 

FishKeeper55

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@hypnogogia Thanks for the link

@alto The only ingredient mention on bottle I can find is each 5ml contains 1.3ml Malachite Green and 1% PVP, as for the Formalin I had to google this first what it is, and been honest I have no idea what this is and what effect it has and would prefer to use something that I'm more comfortable to use.
 

FishKeeper55

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Second article is very interesting read, when they explain about the life cycle of ick(white spots), if fish don't show signs of infection would you stop the treatment? I understand about the secondary bacterial infection, just trying to work out how many days should I expose the fish to treatment and tank, I'm not saying 6 days is enough because in my case could be longer but is it safe to keep exposing fish to the chemicals?
 

hypnogogia

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I think the esha article I linked to says that you can treat for up to 5 days in extreme cases. I think the question of safety then become safety of treating versus safety of not treating and all fish eventually succumbing.
 

alto

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It’s always a balancing act, it used to be that one could do 3 treatments for ich (so ~1 week treatment time) and that seemed to clear it up

But resistance (heat and chemical) has become increasingly more common, so now most studies suggest at least 2 weeks treatment, and more conservatively a month (one should still wait at least 2 weeks after all medications have finished and with no signs of ich - initial symptom is change in respiration)

There has been fairly intensive work on a vaccine for some years now, but it seems quite variable in effectiveness - this is obviously for food cultured fish rather than concern over aquarium fish
 

FishKeeper55

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My current situation is, only visible sign of ich present is one Neon Tetra, has few spots today, Otociclus has only one spot on one of the fins, Esha has arrived yesterday and as I treated the tank with API in morning decided not to put any carbon to remove just yet, no more lost of fish since I lost that one Otociclus, when I return from work today I will pick up some active carbon and run overnight to remove API, also will do 50% water change along with filter clean up, tomorrow morning will add first treatment of Esha, and will continue for 3-5 days and report back how the fish react, This would mean fish and tank has week of treatment with API and 3-5 days with Esha and I hope it will go away with out any more loss,in all honestly at this moment Otociclus is lot more active then it was, Neons have huge appetite so is the Betta, strange thing is Betta never showed physical sign of ich on body and was exposed the most but I did notice about 2 days ago it was gasping for air near top a bit.

@alto when you say about respiration are we talking constantly swimming to top for air? or just how fast or slow they breathing? sorry this might be simple question to some but never yet head to deal with ich or any other sickness.
 

FishKeeper55

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Finally I'm winning this battle, no more white spots on otociclus/neon tetras or betta, the API staff didn't look it was doing much after week of use no lose of fish but spots wasn't going away, as soon as I started treating the tank with Esha things has improved the following day, today is day 3 of treatment and wonder if I should continue for another 2 days to bring this to 5 day treatment using Esha, just checked the fish as much as I could and no visible signs, I just hope it will stay that way.
 
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