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Identification and solution please

idris

idris

Member
Joined
3 Jan 2011
Messages
816
Location
Herts
220L tank has been cycled for about a month.
Diatoms came and went.
I'm doing water changes once a week, dosing NPK once a week, and trying to get into the habit of liquid carbon daily.
There are 8 Tetras, 6 Ottos and 6 Amano, which shouldn't be anywhere near an excessive bio load for a tank this size.
Crypts and Anubius cover a large proportion of the Adakama, and are all doing well, as is Taiwan moss and seem algae free.

I'm getting brown hairy algae on hair grass, but nowhere else obvious.
And tiny spots of green algae on the glass, but not obviously elsewhere.

Obviously I'm getting something wrong, but what?
 
It could be filamentous diatoms or rhizoclonium, both can look kinda brown. Maybe a picture will help identification.. :) If you take a clean small paint brush and brush over the hair grass and it lets loos and floats around, it probably still is diatomes, it it sticks to the brush and it feels kinda slimy and falls appart like brown powder when you rub it between your fingers it most likely is rhizoclonium. Both are eaten by oto's and shrimps.. A blackout usualy eradicates rhizoclonium pretty good. :)
 
In my experience, hair grass, due to its low growth rate, tends to be a magnet for any type of algae. Trim and trim again, that is the solution. Do not let the algae take over the whole hair grass carpet. As soon as you see some algae, trim it. When the carpet is well developed, growth will be quicker and algae will not be able to grow.

I would swap your "once a week NPK and liquid carbon daily" for two or three times a week NPK and Excel daily, if you wish. Dosing NPK once a week is not much. The green dots/spots you are seeing on the glass is green spot algae and it is normally caused by having low PO4. If your tap water is high in NO3, then you can get away with once a week NPK regarding NO3, but PO4, you need to add it, taking into account the low bioload you have for such a big tank. It is likely that you are not adding enough PO4 if you add just once NPK. By the way, are you adding micros???. You should.

So, up your NPK, add micros and trim, trim, trim...your hair grass
 
herezor said:
In my experience, hair grass, due to its low growth rate, tends to be a magnet for any type of algae. Trim and trim again, that is the solution. Do not let the algae take over the whole hair grass carpet. As soon as you see some algae, trim it. When the carpet is well developed, growth will be quicker and algae will not be able to grow.
Click to expand...

Same experience here, my hair grass had a close reationship with staghorn for quite some time.. But don't trim it to short, it might do more damage than good.. I had some patches of hairgrass dying because of trimming it to close to the substrate and than the plantmelt will aid algae growth again. :) Delicate stuff hair grass and algae..
 
zozo said:
Same experience here, my hair grass had a close reationship with staghorn for quite some time.. But don't trim it to short, it might do more damage than good.. I had some patches of hairgrass dying because of trimming it to close to the substrate and than the plantmelt will aid algae growth again. :) Delicate stuff hair grass and algae..
Click to expand...

Well, yes, it depends on the type of hairgrass, but the best way is to do it in patches. Trim a patch today and let it recover and grow more runners. Next week trim a different patch and let it recover and following week go back to the first patch, etc...
 
Micros???
Micronutrients???

The bioload will increase over time - I'm just trying not to rush the stocking.
At the moment I'm dsoing the NPK at teh recommended level. Is it OK to dose the same amount twice a week? ie double the dose?
The area covered isn't that big.

Bearing in mind my lightl levels are relatively low (2x40w T8) and the hairgrass is about 18" bellow the surface, how short should I try trimming it? (I know it's not ideal conditions for the Hairgrass, but I'm hoping the ferts and glutaraldehyde will make enough difference to get it started if I can get the balance right.)

I'll try to get some photos tonight.
 
Yes, micros = micronutrients. You are doing fine increasing bioload slowly to allow your bacteria colony to develop.
When you say you are dosing at the recommended level, you mean according to manufacturer instructions or you are following Estimative Index?. If you are following the manufacturer dosing, that is normally not too much and probably limiting. By the end of the week, plants probably are limited in any of the macronuctrients (N, P or K). And if you are not adding micronutrients, then, your plants are not being fed all the nutrients they need.

Are you doing water changes?. If so, how frequently?. Plants and fish produce and secrete organic compounds that poison your water tank. If you do not change some water, you cannot eliminate those organic products. It is like flushing your toilet. Those organics are normally eliminated by the bacteria in your filter and gravel/substrate, but in a 1 month old tank, that bacteria colony is not well established yet and cannot process all the organics. Do more water changes or use purigen and increase oxygenation (surface movement or rippling) as bacteria need oxygen to work at 100%. During the first weeks of a tank, it is recommended to do several water changes a week and then reduce them slowly.

I would not underestimate light levels. 80W T8 in a 220L tank can be a lot if you do not feed your plants correctly. If you are adding low CO2 (liquid or gas) and low NPK, then that amount of light could be too much. You can either up your glutaraldehyde AND NPK + micros or switch off one of the T8s and just add a small amount of micros and keep the rest the same. You need to balance light and nutrients. Right now you are telling the hairgrass to grow fast but you are not giving enough nutrients to do it. You are pushing the gas pedal without enough petrol, so to speak.

18" is fine, hairgrass would be OK if you just feed it right. My light is 22" and baby tears grow fine because I add a lot of CO2 and NPK+micros.

Cheers
 
I'm using TNC Complete at 1ml per 10L once aweek.
The substrate (Adakama) and tank are not new and (as discussed in another thread) should have a good culture of bacteria, so it's not been like cycling a new tank from scratch.
I'm aiming for 10% water changes a week at the moment.
I'm working on the basis that the light levels are relatively low as the tank is over 2ft deep. The hairgrass is on a raised "shelf" and the tank is yet to be filled to the top. The water is well oxygenated as the spray bar is still significantly above the surface of the water.

Does adding the same dose of TNC Complete twice a week sound right if I keep light and glute the same?
 
I would try.

This is what I have found about TNC Complete here. Look at the Dosage tabhttps://www.thenutrientcompany.com/product/tnc-complete/

1ml per 10 litres of tank water per week.
Dose can be increased to 2 or 3 times per week depending on plant growth, water changes etc.


1ml per 10 litres of tank water 3x per week will give a dose similar to the Estimative Index levels – Be sure to change 50% of your water once per week to remove organic waste from the plants."

So no problem in adding up to 3X. Maybe you do not need that much, just 2X, first on water change and second 2-3 days after.

How much glut are you adding?. Because if it is not too much, I would also double it. That will help your plants and kill algae...Remember that if you are not adding CO2 as gas, plants will demand gluta...
 
About 1ml of 2% glute per 50L. Aiming for daily, but I'm not In the habit at the moment so every 2-3 days.
 
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