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If it's worth doing ...

ianf

ianf

Seedling
Joined
14 Feb 2014
Messages
10
Location
Louth
I have been trying to achieve a decent looking planted tank for a couple of years now but I am still getting something wrong! This manifests itself as a variety of different algae on plants and glass alike.
The set up consists of a 120 x 45 x 45cm tank with an Arcadia Luminaire (4 x 54w T5 tubes) .

I recently changed the tubes and the cost came as a bit of a shock! I don’t mind spending a few bob more to support a local shop but Arcadia are taking the ****! Their 10k tube sells for £28 locally but these are only re-branded Sylvania Aquastars available elsewhere for a tenner. They are difficult to source in the UK as Arcadia have an arrangement with Sylvania. Anyway, I have used vanilla 6k daylight tubes and iAquatics 14k (50:50) tubes and I think they look spot on at a fraction of the price.

The fish always look healthy and, as I have shrimp in the tank, I use a 9w UV lamp to control white spot etc. I live in a hard water area so I use 50/50 tap and RO, this is held in a holding tank that is plumbed in to make water changes a doddle.

I think my remaining issue (after reading through a lot of info here) is water circulation. I use an Eheim 2173 and this would appear to fall well short of the 10x capacity per hour by over 50%.

It would have been fantastic to have a mentor over the last couple of years but I seem to be on my own in this area. This hasn’t dampened my enthusiasm, it has just made getting there harder.

My thoughts now are leaning toward adding a circulation pump to increase movement of water in the tank rather than trying to convince senior management that I need a larger filter.

Lighting is on 7 hours per day and I use (currently) Easy Life ProFito. CO2 is via solenoid and bottle liberated from my local delivered by an inline diffuser. I try and keep gear out of the tank where possible.

If I have missed anything or I am just plain wrong please don’t hesitate to say.

Regards, Ian
 
Yeah, you're missing a few things, such as NPK. Instead of using profito, which is basically just trace elements, you need to add macronutrients. Trace elements are to plants what vitamins are to us. They only need a very small amount. The plants nee Nitrogen (N) Phosphorous (P) and Potassium (K) in very large amounts, so these need to be present.

Also, you are wasting your time trying to optimize bulb colors. That is a meaningless endeavor and your problem is more related to having too much wattage. Plants do not care what color your bulb is, but they really care if you are using too much light, which is why you have so much algae. Buy the cheapest light bulbs you can find and get on with it.

When the lighting is very high, then the other issues, such as poor nutrition and poor flow/distribution become more problematic, and algae become more intransigent.

Cheers,
 
I would add that I changed to Profito from NPK as I had read "don't use NPK if you have fish" somewhere. Up until a couple of months back I was making my own NPK as per the recipes on James Tank.

Your observation on the lighting is welcome as I was trying to get it right for my viewing rather than the plants and you say it is too high but it's almost bang on 4 watts per gallon and (again) that figure is mentioned just about everywhere I look (with a few exceptions). What sort of photo period would you recommend and at what wattage? I did try to cut down the hours but not the wattage which isn't the same thing I guess?

Many thanks for your help, it is much appreciated.
 
The statement "don't use NPK if you have fish" is not true, plants need the nutrients to do well, fish do not care about NPK.

4 Watts per gallon is just over kill! If you keep up with that the plants will die and algae will take over full stop. High lighting will drive the plant's need for the nutrients which you don't provide anymore and CO2 which Clive has mentioned. Think of it has stepping on the accelerator without having fuel in the car.
 
OK, I will cut the lighting back and start pumping in the NPK. I'm sure you are right (well, what I have been doing isn't working) and see what results I get. It is so difficult weaning good information from bad out there.

Many thanks for the advice, Ian
 
ianf said:
It is so difficult weaning good information from bad out there.
Click to expand...
You wont get anything but sound advice on here especially with Clive (ceg4048) in the mix but like Morpheus he can only show you the way you must choose red or blue pill;)
 
reduce lighting down to 2 tubes for 5 hours per day

Use full fertilizers. For instance, tropica specialized.
 
I got a tank slightly smaller than yours and I use 2 x 25 watt T8's which I have today reduced down to 1 x 25watt due to BBA and algae on the glass in the hope to reduce the issues. I have noticed plants in the shade of taller plants not getting algae which is my reason for reducing light.
 
Those are low levels and they do seem counter intuitive but I will start looking at new ballasts for the Luminaire. When I think about it I can't remember seeing a brightly lit planted tank, not seen many though.
 
ianf said:
Those are low levels and they do seem counter intuitive but I will start looking at new ballasts for the Luminaire. When I think about it I can't remember seeing a brightly lit planted tank, not seen many though.
Click to expand...
Can you run it on two bulbs or raise the unit itself? Shame to ruin a perfectly good luminare.
 
Hi

Yes the Luminaire can run on two lamps and I have raised it today as a result of the feedback in this thread. I bought a suspension kit a while back but despite what it says on the packet it doesn't fit the Luminaire I have. I needed to rig it so I wasn't looking directly at the tubes when sat down. This I have just finished but I need to take the floorboards up again as I think I have left a torch under them.

If that doesn't do the trick I will have to fit dimmable ballasts for the full length tubes, more expense, but I am going to crack this if it kills me.

Cheers, Ian
 
You should be good. Now you need to focus on getting the co2 well distributed once you achieve that, with your ferts sorted things will start going your way:)
 
Here's hoping! It's really nice to get solid advice, especially when all are in agreement. A bit more work and following the advice I now feel confident that I shall start getting results so I thank you all.

I still think as a result of all that has been said I will still have too much light so I am going to try some neutral density gels. Has anyone else tried these to reduce light?

Regards, Ian
 
Two x T5 will be fine you just need to match the Co2 to the lighting.

High lighting is possible & often used by competition scapers who don't keep fish while the scape establishes itself.
Once you start using 4 bulbs you really need perfect flow & very high Co2, this is not so difficult on a small tank but with 150l plus tanks it can be very difficult for lots of people.
However with less lighting and good C02 you will still get strong growth & with far less risk of killing your fish.

In regards to dimming your bulbs, you might want to consider LEDs instead of dimmable ballasts.
 
LED is a consideration but I have this Luminaire swinging from the ceiling now and senior management would not be chuffed if I tried to replace it with a LED array :) . A much cheaper option to either (for now) is to drop the light intensity with neutral density filter gel sheets, I don't know if anyone has tried this but I shall be trying it out on my tank.
 
Hello,
Any method of obfuscation which reduces the PAR levels entering the tank will work, whether use of darkened gels, darkened acrylic panels or even the use of floating plants.

Cheers,
 
Sorry to hi-jack but I am just in the process of doing my 1st aquascape and upgrading my 2 x 40watt t8 lights in my 260ltr juwel vision was also looking at upgrading to a 4 bulb t5 system as am currently only getting about 1.4 watts per gallon.
By what I've read, this is overkill, correct? Would 2 x t5, 54w be better at around 1.8 wpg?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
In a nutshell, yes! I have struggled for two years getting the nutrient/light balance correct, a few words of advice here and I am seeing the difference in a matter of days.

On my tank I am currently running 2 x 54w T5's (out of 4 in the Luminaire) and have used a neutral *gel sheet to reduce the light by 1 f stop (50%) and a photo-period of 7 hours.

Combined with good dosings of home-made NPK and CO2 and thinks are getting to look promising.

Cheers, Ian

*Gel sheets is much cheaper than fitting new ballasts
 
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