Iron

[Mattant1984]

Hi guys,

I read somewhere that iron gets rapidly depleted in hard water so it's a good idea to dose it separately??

Is this correct?

Many thanks

 

[KirstyF]

I’m sure folks with more expertise will jump in but it depends on what you are dosing and the frequencies.

If you dose micros 3 x pw (opposite to macro days) as many folks do, then in most situations that would be adequate but the type of Fe is relevant. DTPA Fe is a stronger chelate and therefore more stable in higher PH so plants will have access to it for a longer period, so this is generally recommended. EDDHA is a super strong chelate and can also be used, though most would say it’s not necessary in all but the most exceptional situations.

The stronger the chelate, the harder the plants have to work to get to it however.

I’m not aware of any particular benefit to dosing it separately to other micros, although there could be an argument that if you are using a strong chelate for Fe, you may effectively bind other elements of your micro more than you would like. (This is where it gets complicated 😏)

I have used the above method with DTPA in a hard water tank with good success for an extended period, but have recently noted some mild chlorosis. As a result, I am now dosing a small quantity of Fe gluconate on opposite days to my usual micro. (I front load my macros) This will potentially be easy for plants to access but won’t be available in the tank for very long.

Results so far are promising but it’s early days.

Note, this not necessarily a recommendation, as all tanks are different and the chlorosis I’ve experienced may not even be an Fe issue. It’s a bit of trial and error.

If you don’t actually have an issue then just making sure you are using a suitable chelate may be all you need.

As is often quoted ‘opinions may vary’ 😊

 

[PARAGUAY]

As l understand it iron is something of a essential micronutrient but you only need a very small amount . The symptoms of iron deficiency can be similar to other nutrient deficiencys as @KirstyF says above

 

[Mattant1984]

I’m sure folks with more expertise will jump in but it depends on what you are dosing and the frequencies.

If you dose micros 3 x pw (opposite to macro days) as many folks do, then in most situations that would be adequate but the type of Fe is relevant. DTPA Fe is a stronger chelate and therefore more stable in higher PH so plants will have access to it for a longer period, so this is generally recommended. EDDHA is a super strong chelate and can also be used, though most would say it’s not necessary in all but the most exceptional situations.

The stronger the chelate, the harder the plants have to work to get to it however.

I’m not aware of any particular benefit to dosing it separately to other micros, although there could be an argument that if you are using a strong chelate for Fe, you may effectively bind other elements of your micro more than you would like. (This is where it gets complicated 😏)

I have used the above method with DTPA in a hard water tank with good success for an extended period, but have recently noted some mild chlorosis. As a result, I am now dosing a small quantity of Fe gluconate on opposite days to my usual micro. (I front load my macros) This will potentially be easy for plants to access but won’t be available in the tank for very long.

Results so far are promising but it’s early days.

Note, this not necessarily a recommendation, as all tanks are different and the chlorosis I’ve experienced may not even be an Fe issue. It’s a bit of trial and error.

If you don’t actually have an issue then just making sure you are using a suitable chelate may be all you need.

As is often quoted ‘opinions may vary’ 😊

Thanks for your reply, this is all way way way to complicated for me 🤣🤣

 

[KirstyF]

Thanks for your reply, this is all way way way to complicated for me 🤣🤣

Short answer is probably not! 😂

What fertilisers are you using?

I do DIY ferts so am very unfamiliar with out of the bottle options, if this is what you are using. There are folks here however that will likely know what the content of your ferts are. If you let us know what you are using and the hardness and ph of your water that will help to get a recommendation. 😂

 

[Mattant1984]

Short answer is probably not! 😂

What fertilisers are you using?

I do DIY ferts so am very unfamiliar with out of the bottle options, if this is what you are using. There are folks here however that will likely know what the content of your ferts are. If you let us know what you are using and the hardness and ph of your water that will help to get a recommendation. 😂

I like the short answer more 🤣🤣

I'm using tnc complete and my pH is around 7.5, gh about 12 and kh about 15

Hope that helps 👍

 

[aec34]

I like the short answer more 🤣🤣

I'm using tnc complete and my pH is around 7.5, gh about 12 and kh about 15

Hope that helps 👍

@Mattant1994 your water and regime sounds very similar to mine.
I do the odd squirt of an off-the-shelf iron product, plus occasionally Epsom salts for my crypts, if they look like they need it. (At first I just used a complete feed, but they looked poorly, I added stuff, they looked better!)
Note I’m not a CO2 user, and have the benefit of tiny tanks (@KirstyF laughs at the size of my tanks compared to hers 👋), so cost isn’t prohibitive.
My feeling is that crunching the numbers and DIY matter more the bigger your tanks get, and the more fussy your plants. Depends what your tank is like and what you are after 🙂

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I'm using tnc complete and my pH is around 7.5, gh about 12 and kh about 15

I think the iron source in TNC Complete is FeEDTA, so it may struggle to supply much available iron in hard water, like you have.

Cheers Darrel

 

[Mattant1984]

Hi all,I think the iron source in TNC Complete is FeEDTA, so it may struggle to supply much available iron in hard water, like you have.

Cheers Darrel

So maybe an added iron product might help?

 

[Mattant1984]

@Mattant1994 your water and regime sounds very similar to mine.
I do the odd squirt of an off-the-shelf iron product, plus occasionally Epsom salts for my crypts, if they look like they need it. (At first I just used a complete feed, but they looked poorly, I added stuff, they looked better!)
Note I’m not a CO2 user, and have the benefit of tiny tanks (@KirstyF laughs at the size of my tanks compared to hers 👋), so cost isn’t prohibitive.
My feeling is that crunching the numbers and DIY matter more the bigger your tanks get, and the more fussy your plants. Depends what your tank is like and what you are after 🙂

Thanks for your response,
My water is pretty hard and I am just adding tnc complete weekly however might start adding something similar to you.

The issue I have is my tank is 700 litres lol

 

[John q]

I read somewhere that iron gets rapidly depleted in hard water

It does, ph related, but thankfully the plants uptake iron when it's available. I kind of suspect we are putting the cart before the horse, as in do you have iron deficiency? Throw some pics up of the tank mate, but I suspect tnc complete dosed every other day will be fine, even in hard water.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

So maybe an added iron product might help?

You could try <"Chempak Sequestered Iron"> or other FeEDDHA based product.

as in do you have iron deficiency? Throw some pics up of the tank mate, but I suspect tnc complete dosed every other day will be fine, even in hard water.

Picture would be a good idea, iron deficiency has a <"very distinctive look"> of <"pale new leaves">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Mattant1984]

It does, ph related, but thankfully the plants uptake iron when it's available. I kind of suspect we are putting the cart before the horse, as in do you have iron deficiency? Throw some pics up of the tank mate, but I suspect tnc complete dosed every other day will be fine, even in hard water.

Hi John,

Thanks for the reply, I have added a pic of the tank and most plants seem to be growing OK. Crypts especially are growing nicely. I really want the stem plants to get some more height but it just seems to be taking a while (not I've planted some new hydraulics on the right have side last night)

I do dose tnc complete but only once a week.

 

[Mattant1984]

It does, ph related, but thankfully the plants uptake iron when it's available. I kind of suspect we are putting the cart before the horse, as in do you have iron deficiency? Throw some pics up of the tank mate, but I suspect tnc complete dosed every other day will be fine, even in hard water.

 

[Mattant1984]

Hi all,

You could try <"Chempak Sequestered Iron"> or other FeEDDHA based product.

Picture would be a good idea, iron deficiency has a <"very distinctive look"> of <"pale new leaves">.

cheers Darrel

Cheers Darrel,

Unsure if I have an iron deficiency I just thought it might help with quicker growth 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ maybe I'm just being impatient lol

 

[John q]

I do dose tnc complete but only once a week.

You could possibly try dividing/splitting the dose 3x a week, but to be honest plant health from that picture looks OK to me.

 

[Mattant1984]

You could possibly try dividing/splitting the dose 3x a week, but to be honest plant health from that picture looks OK to me.

Thanks John,

So it's a 700 litre tank so I add 70ml per week.

Would you stick to the 70ml once per week but over 3 days or could I up it a little and add say 30ml 3x per week?
Would more ferts increase plant growth??

Many thanks 😊

 

[John q]

Would more ferts increase plant growth??

Yes if ferts were the limiting factor.

Your plants look healthy enough to me but the best way to answer your question is to add a bit more, it won't do any harm. Try adding 30ml 3x a week, 90ml in total and see what happens. This hobby is all about trial and error, that's why it's so enjoyable 😉

 

[plantnoobdude]

from that picture looks OK to me.

Agreed! Stunning tank @Mattant1994

 

[Mattant1984]

Yes if ferts were the limiting factor.

Your plants look healthy enough to me but the best way to answer your question is to add a bit more, it won't do any harm. Try adding 30ml 3x a week, 90ml in total and see what happens. This hobby is all about trial and error, that's why it's so enjoyable 😉

Thanks so much for the help John, never dealt with ferts before so I'm so worried about adding too much and causing an issue