Discussion in 'Aquarium Fert Dosing' started by sks, 14 Jan 2008.
just out of interest, how much does a 5 litre bottle of Brighty K cost?
about Â£100 delivered from Hong Kong
I'm with the DIY dry ferts dosing at the moment. One day I intend to have a lawn like yours and if I have to use ADA to do it, then I will. At the moment I find that the HC clump that I have is getting stronger and stronger, and HC is not as hard as people make out to be.
I find hc to be, Can't get the stuff to grow nicely its always a funny colour or a slow grower.
How do you find the ADA ferts? Are they as good as people make out?
I've never had algae with ADA, but that's just me. EI for me has gone horribly wrong so far!!
I hope James doesn't mind me jumping in here...
I think the key to success with the ADA fert range is its use in conjuntion with the ADA substrate system.
The ADA Step Series has no NPK, which is compensated for by the uber-rich ADA Power Sand and Aqua Soil.
The ADA Special Brighty Shade and Light has NPK. The Shade is a diluted version of Lights.
I also think that most folk have success with ADA stuff because they are generally serious hobbyists. Otherwise they wouldn't pay the Â£Â£Â£.
They would likely have good results using any method, because they get the basics right i.e. good light, CO2, regualr dosing and water changes.
All this said, I have no personal experience of the ADA range. I have great results with any of the substrates I've used and either dry ferts or Tropica TPN+.
One day I will try out the complete ADA system and find the comparisons interesting.
ADA stuff seems very over priced to me - surely NPK is NPK whatever medium it is delivered in? I try and use powdered ferts from AE wherever i can - at 400 litres running my tank with ADA stuff would be out of my budget and im reasonably well off!
I have to say I agree 100% with stevet but there is no denying that Tom and many others have experienced difficulty implementing EI and yet when they switched to a different scheme they have had better luck. This seems bizarre to me and I'd really like to understand how this happens. Perhaps Tom you could offer some data regarding the dosing schemes, tank parameters etc. so we could analyze what goes wrong. I know that a lot of times CO2 is a weak link in a scheme. Poor CO2 during a span of a week or two can undermine any dosing scheme and trigger algae making it appear to be the fault of the dosing.
If this tank was at my home where i could give it more attention i probably wont be dosing ADA ferts. As its in the office, i just hook the dosing pump into the bottles and let it go, an easy solution for the setup + alot of the time i am away from the office so this works great for me as no one else there can be trusted
EI works great and have had success with it and will be using it in my Dutch tank (at home )
The problem with this is simple, you are dealing with human beings and not robots. The only way for you to correct his problem would be to visit him and see what he's doing that's wrong. Tom Barr and a lot of other people have moved aquatic gardening to where it should be: cook book recipes that we all follow, hence leading to what we should be concerned about: scaping. I have never crossed to the scaping part simply because all this time I've been listening to the wrong advice and hence have to start again, just getting a nice lawn is the start for me, even though it would a triviality to other people, but unless I cross that line I can't even be bothered to think about scaping.
Lots of people do different things in different ways and they have assumptions/beliefs/faiths at looking at things. It's the latter that can make it all messy. I am in your's and Tom Barr's camp, I subscribe to the scientific method, because it's what all of our modern world is base. But for me to reach a good enough proficiency I'd need to do a lot of work/experimentation. From my point of view, if ADA aqua soil and ferts can get to me what I want quickly (and effortlessly) then I'll do it. I don't have that much time to experiment around.
I personally don't think this is true at all. I think ADA has put a lot of research and effort into making their system the way it is, and Dennerle and dupla have stalled and not bothered to move on.
You have missed my point, sks.
I am not saying ADA are good or bad. I like their system. It works well and is the most user-friendly out there for non-techies. "Pure" 'scapers i.e. folk that don't like dry chems etc. love it, for good reason. Their substrate system is probably one of the best in the world. It allows lots of room for error with under-dosing etc.
What I'm trying to say is that most folk who spend the Â£Â£Â£ on planted tanks, are generally quite serious about wanting good results.
FYI Dennerle now have NPK products, glassware and T5 lighting. They have moved on.
I wouldn't mind being a robot...but I insist on being programmed with aquascaping subroutines written by Dave Spencer and Graeme Edwards..ooh...ooh...I also insist on being programmed to receive awesome free PFK goodies and free lifetime supply of TPN+...subroutine to be written by George Farmer...
If any of his tanks are to go by, ADA is impressive to say the least. For me a scaper is someone who can produce such displays REGARDLESS of system used.
I've spent Â£Â£Â£s on the Dennerle system, it's never given me good results! It was only after learning about how to grow plants and other fishkeeping issues that things started to settle. It was only after learning about other subtleties that I had my head screwed in straight. I still remember the first time when I started to use Dennerle - way back in 1992 and I was just starting uni - it was the only game in town as far as I was concerned. I didn't know about Tom Barr, or the krib then.
If Dennerle have moved on I'd like to see them:
1) ditching the heating cables. This is a no brainer, we don't need them, full stop. There is no controversy about them, what there is a propaganda being fueled by those who need to sell them. I still have my 50 watts and 75 watts cable transformers for anyone who wants them. I also have a brand new spare undergravel heating cable that cost me Â£100, free for anyone who wants it.
2) stop telling people to use pH controllers, saying that they should be used to control CO2 in the tank
3) stop taliking gibberish about once tank volume per hour flow for filtration etc. . .
and some more I've forgotten about . .
I now know why people tend to use glassware, because under the bright lights normal Eheim plastic walking sticks will blush and degrade.
Hopefully what will happen is all these issues with algae and tank maintenance will get resolved and we get to the point where we just buy something due to its design and/or quality. The difference would be like cook your own food or going out to an expensive restaurant.
Any new pics, James?
I reckon this would make a nice PFK feature. Would you be interested in a reader visit? Maybe after you've stocked the fish and it's matured a little more.
Keep up the good work mate.
To quote sks,
'From my point of view, if ADA aqua soil and ferts can get to me what I want quickly (and effortlessly) then I'll do it. I don't have that much time to experiment around.'
'his attitude was "throw money at it" and that should fix it.'
...are perilously close to the same thing. I know what you are saying about ADA - its a regime that is proven to work and im sure their stuff is good - but i am also equally sure a bottle of brighty K can be made up for a fraction of the price with the dry ferts i have in my house mixed with RO water (potassium carbonate)! My point therefore is that EI is as legitimate a regime as Amanao's, it can be made up with dry ferts with info sourced from this site. James has a recipe for a one stop NPK solution in a thread on this site...what was that about homework...?
An attempt to keep this thread nice and on track...
that comparison is not fair. ADA know what they are doing and in what bounds. Also you need a reasonable level of knowledge/competence to use their stuff anyway. At least with ADA I know what I'm doing. I don't mind killing plants, I do mind killing fish. And if I had issues I would bother to look further into it, which the person in the article did not even bother, nor did the journalist who wrote the article bothered to tell him to do some reading up. That's the difference.
The guy in the PFK article in question did not even go as far as to bother to understand biological filtration. George puts forward the view that PFK was anti tank busters at the time, which is neither here nor there. I can understand journalistic practices in not tainting the article, but PFK's non intervention and the guy's total utter laziness in putting in any effort was what I had issues with.
forgot to add, artistic ability (or any qualitative abilities) are not logically computable, otherwise computers would have replaced artists/writers/musicians/ etc. . . long ago. It doesn't work like that. And it's for this reason why I'm still in this hobby, because we will always learn new things, and there is always new things to learn.
On the other hand issues like ferts/maintenance/dosing regimes/lighting etc. . . are all falsifiable and hence we can agree and disprove issues raised with them. That's the mechanical side of the hobby. I need to nail that before I move onto the scaping.
sorry for the interruption James, feel free to spoil my journal thread .
I said PFK are quite anti-tankbusters "these days". Not "those" days.
BTW there's at least two planted articles in there every month. But if you don't take PFK seriously then I guess you're not interested...
I hope the implication here isnt that you think other people hijacked this thread without you being involved George...?
Separate names with a comma.